I have been through abuse myself and for me PERSONALLY cheating would be far more painful, but I place emphasis on romance more than most people do. Things aren't so black and white.
And yes, there is a lot of propaganda and politics behind what the media claims to be 'truth' versus what is really true. Like I said, this argument with you will go over no where, but I'll point out my opinion just as you have yours in the name of fairness. BeLieve what you want to believe, but I'll say that you're missing the bigger picture here with your assumptions and subjective statements.
You think fathers who lose custody of their children over lies because the court system supports the female even if the husband has committed no crimes is not as painful? Why not be fair when making statements about the subjectivity of emotional pain? Your comments are subconsciously misandrist, and so my comments will seek to balance this out and point out the opposite, which is often times being overlooked.
There is subliminal programming going on everywhere in the media and you're just another victim of it without realizing it. Research the truth about how the media is lying about domestic violence numbers and rape allegations, a lot of which don't truly happen, yet the male gets into trouble and loses his job, family, life... but he's insignificant in your mind. You wouldn't admit it but you are being extremely one sided and misandrist on a subconscious level.
I have been through child sexual abuse, domestic violence, assaults by both male and female lovers and rape by a male, which has resulted in PTSD. I also lost custody of my 5 year old daughter because her father's lies about me were believed by the court so I do know how painful that can be.
I've also worked in the family violence and sexual violence fields since the 70's and it's been very difficult until recently to get the media to take any notice of these issues. My views on these issues are not formed by any subliminal brainwashing by the media but by personal and work experience.
Regarding untrue rape allegations, the man who raped me has been getting away with it in the same community for more than 40 years and has only been charged once and it wasn't proceeded with because he terrified the woman into not giving evidence against him. Most women don't report rape, most cases don't get to court and of those that do, most rapists aren't convicted. Same for child sexual abuse, which is predominantly commmitted by men.
I appreciate the mature way that you responded and am sorry for what you've been through. I can relate to trauma and know how hard it is. I'll admit that me being overly vulnerable to the topic of cheating is an outlier.
You said you had a female lover - have you experienced discrimination for your bisexuality? I ask this because as a bisexual, I often see gays being hated (usually by other males), yet lesbians are often times supported *in comparison*. I'll admit that a lot of this has to do with the fact that males tend to use their testosterone as their moral compass. Nevertheless, it is another topic I have suffered from for over 2 decades - being feminine/bi, from both genders, yet I haven't noticed women having as hard of a time if they had female partners.
In fact, I don't notice males talking about having other male lovers near as much as females do, even online. It saddens me. What's your take on this?
Also, those males/females who abused you shouldn't be considered "lovers". Many people have a skewed perception of "love".
My loss of custody was partly because of "lesbian tendencies" plus involvement in the Women's Liberation Movement. I was evicted from one long term tenancy after the owners realised I had a woman lover.
As to your other point, it's definitely true that gay males have historically experienced more discrimination than lesbians have: in most countries lesbianism was never illegal whereas male homosexual acts were. I suspect very many men don't take lesbianism seriously enough to be upset by it and certainly a lot of men have fantasies of "converting" lesbians to heterosexuality.
I reckon gay males are still more of a threat to heterosexual males than are lesbians, and at the risk of you calling me out on misandry again, it is straight males who have the most power at this point in time.
Point taken to your last sentence, but they were sexual partners at the time, which is why I used the term "lovers". I totally agree with your last sentence!
Sorry to read that you were discriminated against.
That's what i mean... Even though sex is a subconscious desire for love/oneness, without empathy/oneness it wouldn't be love, hence why they were never lovers. I never sought for sex without love as the two go hand in glove to me. Unfortunately these daze it's not the case, to the point that it's actually ruined sexual intercourse for me and I have hence created many personal fetyshes in lieu of coitus and other common sexual acts. I guess I'd rather be alone than have sex with someone who doesn't love nor care about me.
Also, I see myself as androgynous and would love to experience what you did; to feel love (sex) as a female does with a male or female. I've considered the operation but would find it difficult to find a partner male or female and actually be loved if I had gone through with it and (a la Pete Burns, but without the penis part...). Does this make me creepy in your eyes? :P
And no, I don't consider your POV to be misandry and even agree with most of it. The government profits off putting BOTH genders off against eachother and both are discriminated against almost equally, but it differs for example gays being mistreated more often than lesbians, however even this is a result of male fears/homophobia.
You are mistaken: there can be love in a relationship but also violence, in fact that's quite common, which is why it's often so difficult to get out of such relationships. I too would rather be alone than have sex with an uncaring person with whom I have no rapport - tried that a few years back and it did not end well and was very soon boring and unsatisfying.
I don't find you at all creepy but I do find it worrying that it's becoming almost fashionable for people to have their genitals modified and take dangerous sex hormones in an attempt to become the opposite gender. Who is profiting from that, do you think? Surgeons and drug companies in my opinion.
I won't get into an argument with you about whether discrimination against men and women is anywhere near equal, because the situation is obvious to me & borne out by statistics, so let's agree to disagree eh?
If it's quite common for there to be love and violence in a relationship, then that's not real love and care. Do mothers hit their children or pets that they love (not necessarily talking about spanky)? No. So a relationship between two adults should be no different, especially if it's so common. Same with cheating. Also, Love is not black and white and has many levels of empathy, so if there is violence/cheating then the perpetrator didn't love/respect their partner *enough* to not raise their hand against them. It seems like you were hurt in the relationship and don't want to believe that your partner may have not really respected/loved you enough to not harm you. Perhaps you loved your partner more than they loved you. There might have been compassion to a certain extent, but obviously it wasn't strong enough to stop them from acting on violence against you. Instead of protecting one another people seem to attack each other and call it 'love'. That's just my opinion.
Many transsexuals would take offense to the statement ov becoming the 'opposite' gender, as they often feel trapped. There are also those like me who don't like having a phallus nor using it, but are trapped with one, living a lonely life desiring to know what it's like to make love as a female would with a vagina. I never wanted to take estrogen, though testosterone is a must if one is to undergo vaginoplasty. Not to mention that the emotional pain one suffers would far outweigh the mere side effects of GRS meds.
Doesn't matter if they're profiting when it's something some of us have wanted all our lives. Not to those of us who care enough about it anyway. As a bisexual, I would expect you to also empathize with those of us who are gender neutral or wish to experience sex from the opposite *physical* gender's sexual organs or body.
IIN That i want to kill women who cheat on their boyfriend/husband?
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I have been through abuse myself and for me PERSONALLY cheating would be far more painful, but I place emphasis on romance more than most people do. Things aren't so black and white.
And yes, there is a lot of propaganda and politics behind what the media claims to be 'truth' versus what is really true. Like I said, this argument with you will go over no where, but I'll point out my opinion just as you have yours in the name of fairness. BeLieve what you want to believe, but I'll say that you're missing the bigger picture here with your assumptions and subjective statements.
You think fathers who lose custody of their children over lies because the court system supports the female even if the husband has committed no crimes is not as painful? Why not be fair when making statements about the subjectivity of emotional pain? Your comments are subconsciously misandrist, and so my comments will seek to balance this out and point out the opposite, which is often times being overlooked.
There is subliminal programming going on everywhere in the media and you're just another victim of it without realizing it. Research the truth about how the media is lying about domestic violence numbers and rape allegations, a lot of which don't truly happen, yet the male gets into trouble and loses his job, family, life... but he's insignificant in your mind. You wouldn't admit it but you are being extremely one sided and misandrist on a subconscious level.
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Ellenna
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I have been through child sexual abuse, domestic violence, assaults by both male and female lovers and rape by a male, which has resulted in PTSD. I also lost custody of my 5 year old daughter because her father's lies about me were believed by the court so I do know how painful that can be.
I've also worked in the family violence and sexual violence fields since the 70's and it's been very difficult until recently to get the media to take any notice of these issues. My views on these issues are not formed by any subliminal brainwashing by the media but by personal and work experience.
Regarding untrue rape allegations, the man who raped me has been getting away with it in the same community for more than 40 years and has only been charged once and it wasn't proceeded with because he terrified the woman into not giving evidence against him. Most women don't report rape, most cases don't get to court and of those that do, most rapists aren't convicted. Same for child sexual abuse, which is predominantly commmitted by men.
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NYXX
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I appreciate the mature way that you responded and am sorry for what you've been through. I can relate to trauma and know how hard it is. I'll admit that me being overly vulnerable to the topic of cheating is an outlier.
You said you had a female lover - have you experienced discrimination for your bisexuality? I ask this because as a bisexual, I often see gays being hated (usually by other males), yet lesbians are often times supported *in comparison*. I'll admit that a lot of this has to do with the fact that males tend to use their testosterone as their moral compass. Nevertheless, it is another topic I have suffered from for over 2 decades - being feminine/bi, from both genders, yet I haven't noticed women having as hard of a time if they had female partners.
In fact, I don't notice males talking about having other male lovers near as much as females do, even online. It saddens me. What's your take on this?
Also, those males/females who abused you shouldn't be considered "lovers". Many people have a skewed perception of "love".
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Ellenna
7 years ago
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My loss of custody was partly because of "lesbian tendencies" plus involvement in the Women's Liberation Movement. I was evicted from one long term tenancy after the owners realised I had a woman lover.
As to your other point, it's definitely true that gay males have historically experienced more discrimination than lesbians have: in most countries lesbianism was never illegal whereas male homosexual acts were. I suspect very many men don't take lesbianism seriously enough to be upset by it and certainly a lot of men have fantasies of "converting" lesbians to heterosexuality.
I reckon gay males are still more of a threat to heterosexual males than are lesbians, and at the risk of you calling me out on misandry again, it is straight males who have the most power at this point in time.
Point taken to your last sentence, but they were sexual partners at the time, which is why I used the term "lovers". I totally agree with your last sentence!
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NYXX
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Sorry to read that you were discriminated against.
That's what i mean... Even though sex is a subconscious desire for love/oneness, without empathy/oneness it wouldn't be love, hence why they were never lovers. I never sought for sex without love as the two go hand in glove to me. Unfortunately these daze it's not the case, to the point that it's actually ruined sexual intercourse for me and I have hence created many personal fetyshes in lieu of coitus and other common sexual acts. I guess I'd rather be alone than have sex with someone who doesn't love nor care about me.
Also, I see myself as androgynous and would love to experience what you did; to feel love (sex) as a female does with a male or female. I've considered the operation but would find it difficult to find a partner male or female and actually be loved if I had gone through with it and (a la Pete Burns, but without the penis part...). Does this make me creepy in your eyes? :P
And no, I don't consider your POV to be misandry and even agree with most of it. The government profits off putting BOTH genders off against eachother and both are discriminated against almost equally, but it differs for example gays being mistreated more often than lesbians, however even this is a result of male fears/homophobia.
--
Ellenna
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You are mistaken: there can be love in a relationship but also violence, in fact that's quite common, which is why it's often so difficult to get out of such relationships. I too would rather be alone than have sex with an uncaring person with whom I have no rapport - tried that a few years back and it did not end well and was very soon boring and unsatisfying.
I don't find you at all creepy but I do find it worrying that it's becoming almost fashionable for people to have their genitals modified and take dangerous sex hormones in an attempt to become the opposite gender. Who is profiting from that, do you think? Surgeons and drug companies in my opinion.
I won't get into an argument with you about whether discrimination against men and women is anywhere near equal, because the situation is obvious to me & borne out by statistics, so let's agree to disagree eh?
--
NYXX
7 years ago
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If it's quite common for there to be love and violence in a relationship, then that's not real love and care. Do mothers hit their children or pets that they love (not necessarily talking about spanky)? No. So a relationship between two adults should be no different, especially if it's so common. Same with cheating. Also, Love is not black and white and has many levels of empathy, so if there is violence/cheating then the perpetrator didn't love/respect their partner *enough* to not raise their hand against them. It seems like you were hurt in the relationship and don't want to believe that your partner may have not really respected/loved you enough to not harm you. Perhaps you loved your partner more than they loved you. There might have been compassion to a certain extent, but obviously it wasn't strong enough to stop them from acting on violence against you. Instead of protecting one another people seem to attack each other and call it 'love'. That's just my opinion.
Many transsexuals would take offense to the statement ov becoming the 'opposite' gender, as they often feel trapped. There are also those like me who don't like having a phallus nor using it, but are trapped with one, living a lonely life desiring to know what it's like to make love as a female would with a vagina. I never wanted to take estrogen, though testosterone is a must if one is to undergo vaginoplasty. Not to mention that the emotional pain one suffers would far outweigh the mere side effects of GRS meds.
Doesn't matter if they're profiting when it's something some of us have wanted all our lives. Not to those of us who care enough about it anyway. As a bisexual, I would expect you to also empathize with those of us who are gender neutral or wish to experience sex from the opposite *physical* gender's sexual organs or body.