Quote: "I know science exists I just don't believe in evolution please don't start something about that"
It is my main area of debate you know! Oh well, I won't speak of this fact then. Just know that even the Pope believes in evolution, and so do many other 'believers'. Plus its taught to ALL public school children in school. AND I just mentioned that the new Boson particle has just been discovered, confirming where ALL matter came from. Anyway, I won't go on about this, as you asked me not to.
But, it is strange because you write like you have learned things in life and evolution is just so damn obvious. Please look up all the facts on this, it is just TOO basic to speak of.
Quote: "you seem to forget we're all just human none greater or lesser than the other"
As per normal backward logic from a religious person.
Atheists not only believe all people are equal, they ALSO believe that ALL life is important.
Its the 'religious' people who say other PEOPLE are sad for not knowing Jesus! Or no other lifeforms except people, have souls! And the billions of years of life before people came into existence on Earth? You do realize that 'people' have only walked this Earth for 200K years, Not BILLIONS of years! Note: ALL LIFE IS IMPORTANT, generally because the people 'soul' (as per present 'religious' definition) is NOT real.
Quote: "how did it all start you say through science but even the tiniest cell had to be created how are all the animals how are we here how did we come to exist?"
Evolution. Wait I thought you said you didn't want to bring that up?
If you seriously want the answer to that question ask again and I'll write back how life formed on Earth, but it IS public knowledge, I mean just watch a youtube video on it. By the way other galaxies (other than our own Milky Way) formed way before Earth formed! Who knows there may likely be life out there already (actually its highly likely)
Quote: "I only asked that you stop being disrespectful to other people's religion and beliefs"
I know (well actually you DID ask other questions too) But, its like a child saying something that's obviously wrong, I just feel compelled to tell them the truth, or enlighten them on what we now know as fact. Be fully aware that 'religion' consistently changes to suit new advances and discoveries in science. There are thousands of examples on this.
Quote: "I'm just really curious that's all just a simple question ARE you trying to start a dispute of hateful words????"
Oh dear I have to say this paragraph again: (I've quoted it MANY times)
Religions are our fantasy when reality is too complex to understand. Simple people like simple answers. How did the universe begin ? Simple – God magically made it. Complex – in the Science of cosmology you can learn about how the universe exists and what we have observed about it's beginnings.
The simple answer takes 2 seconds. The complex answer takes 10-15 years of dedicated study and even then, you still won't have all the answers you were looking for, but you will have facts, evidence, observation, models that have predictive capabilities, truth and reality. God & Faith are never answers to anything. They are when you want to give up and let your mind enjoy the simple, untruthful fantasy of knowing nothing at all.
Quote: "Are you trying to make me angry..."
Seriously NO. Definitely NOT. Trust me I truthfully mean this. I don't know how to make you see this 100% NO I do not want to make you angry.
In saying that, its INEVITABLE that you will get angry. ALL religious people do when losing an intelligent debate. It has seriously happened Every Single Time, I have brought up common sense, realistic, KNOWN facts and totally cleared up all confusions. Inevitably the 'religious guy gets upset and angry, I suspect through emotional defense or something?
You are obviously not aware of where we are with our understanding of all life and even the entire universe. We have gone thousands of years into the future since the Bible. I'm telling you, that we now know things that are true that we did not before. By the way, why didn't god write (or recite) that the world is round in the Bible? That itself would have helped us understand more about ourselves straight away.
Science is researching and finding facts about us and the universe and where we came from, every single day.
Religion does absolutely nothing. Zero. Although it may help us to know how absolutely ignorant we once were.
Don't praise the 'Lord'. LEARN and try to better our world. Its ok to ask questions AND to get answers. The 'church' is WRONG and ALL should know this immediately.
Public school children are now taught about Evolution. Note don't think of it as a theory, since the 'theory of gravity' is less known about than Evolution! In science Theory=Fact (for us mere people)
Plus 'religion' has been REMOVED from public school. Don't you wonder why?
I'm sorry that I tried to say something that you cannot understand in my point of view because you have no base of religion when I talked about how people existed the thought of evolution never jumped in my head same as the fact that God created everything never jumped in yours. It won't help explaining our beliefs for EITHER of us because we both see things differently.
And about only humans have souls I agree with you that every life form is important I believe that my dog is in heaven and all the animals that died what would heaven be without all the things God created if it exists it's there because God deemed it important enough to make.
And religion being taken out of schools have you ever stopped to think about the fact that there are many different religions and that if you base a place on one religion it will be a catastrophic event because everyone is different.
And no dad I'm really not angry it's just I don't know how to explain it to you. OK I'll make you a deal I'll watch your video on youtube if you watch mine I think that's fair if you are strong in your belief it won't bother you to watch it. Please just go watch DEON HOCKEY on youtube you can pick any video of where he heals people just one.
The only reason I may get upset is because your still saying in every reply that you'd hang Him I just find it really disrespectful.
OMG the healing powers of Deon Hockey a South African Evangelist. Are you serious?
Are you suggesting that people should go to this man for help instead of scientifically educated doctors? Because if you did that to your sick children you would be charged for neglect or even manslaughter if they died.
The ONLY reason why these religious healers exist is because people are desperate.
This is the same as religious people taking in the homeless and desperate people on the streets. Its not 'god' that saves them, it is the human caring and help these desperate people receive whilst in need. This is actually one of the main reasons why religion concerns me so much, they pray on the weak and helpless, then try to 'help' them (sometimes providing that needed help fully) THEN say it was the 'Lord' that helped them not the natural human behaviour of people helping others! It is actually shameful and deceitful of these religious people to have another agenda other than just helping someone out of the kindness of their heart.
This religious nut job does NOT heal others.
If he did, every single doctor and scientist and anyone who are beyond our present curing medical abilities would say, try Deon Hockey because he heals others!! They don't say this because its ridiculous, NOT proven effective, and is actually likely the opposite effect, people could HURT their body further by believing all is ok now, I'm Healed! Hmm, I might go do some bungy jumping since my back is all ok now!!! Seriously this type of person can cause more harm than good. It is deceiving and blinding people to 'believe' in something that is false. I hope you are not suggesting that people should find relief in lying to themselves, because that's just cruel. You're all ok now, run and prosper (he'll be dead tomorrow, don't tell him!)
I dearly hope that you do just look at one of those youtube videos on evolution and our universe. I'm positive that you have not ever done this before.
Ned Flanders: "I say there's some things people don't want to know, important things." LOL
Yes go to scientifically educated doctors go and see if they will be able to get a paralyzed person to push out their own wheel chair in one doctors visit let's see them cure a person of brain cancer taking away all traces that the cancer ever existed. Let's see them heal the blind like I've witnessed with my own eyes the healing of the Lord if you want to live in your own little world be my guest you say with science you see all the facts open your eyes and you'll see there are things greater than science. I've seen people of eighty with ten percent hearing throw away their hearing aids I've seen peoples legs grow yes a doctor can do that too but it won't be your leg when your buying it in a shop.
Really tell me what's greater being full of plastic and metal or having what God gave you without little gadgets you have to replace every few years. Tell me how a little girl who had no hope of ever walking because ' scientifically educated doctors' told her there was nothing they could do, how did she suddenly stand up and walk really can someone really be that dense and blind to the facts right in front of them. Now you tell me what is child negligence removing all hope of ever having a normal life or ridding them all the problems that keep them from living a full happy life? What would you want for your children?
You would think these 'miracles' would be made publicly available?
Actually, for some (unknown) reason, it is my understanding that religious people feel that science tries to hide certain things, ie like miracles being performed, and also how they may not know as much as they promote?
This couldn't be further from the truth.
Science WELCOMES everything. Scientists are extremely happy to speak of any 'miracle' that is beyond the scope of their present understanding, even if it was 'God's' will.
But, strangely there have been ZERO reported 'miracles'?? ZERO! I mean this even includes the miracles written in the Bible (some 2000 years ago in the Middle East) EVEN those miracles are reported officially as false, No evidence, No other literature on the subject or person, nothing!
So unless you think these 'healing' churches are hiding their 'miracles'. They just DON'T happen.
It would be wonderous if people could actually see or walk again, if they weren't able to before. But nothing written anywhere (except obviously in the church and in Pastor's minds) NO news article (unbiased of course) NOTHING.
So why would science 'hide' these things? I'd actually seriously like to know what is in the minds of religious people? You honestly feel that 'science' or scientists would hide these miracles? Crazy thoughts.
IF anyone, or any church, or any 'divine' action EVER happens (so far NOTHING) then science would be investigating it until the end of time. But there is no investigation on miracles or 'divine' action from the Lord, again NOTHING.
I am positive that religious people feel that science is against them. They are NOT. Simply science states just to confirm the person who could not see or walk to get a scientific analysis of their situation, and then to attend church and witness the 'miracle'! BUT the only facts here are we don't actually know if 1. Were they REALLY blind to begin with 2. Can they now really see? As yet NO evidence, not even a miniscle, NOTHING!
Next you say you witnessed this yourself.
You are not a doctor or a scientist, and therefore what you feel you saw may not be the truth (highly likely actually 100%)
The next time you attend one of these churches say STOP everyone, the world should know about this miracle, and science is open arms to new discoveries. Get this handicapped or blind person tested fully publicly first, until its scientifically conclusive, THEN perform the miracle.
Strangely the church have never agreed to this. And the initial 'doctor's' report, seems to always come from a 'religious' person of the same church?! You'd think they'd want to show the world these miracles? Unless of course they are UNTRUE. ;)
I'm going to quote Richard Dawkins from The God Delusion, because it is relevant here (Do note, he is a scientist)
“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
Yes I may not be a scientist but these people He heals have been in my church for years I can say without a doubt that they were blind and paralyzed and they are publicly available if you went on youtube you'll see what your asking for. And come on really how many magazines are there with the miracles your looking for don't tell me these people are just lying scientists may give you the facts but were you there did you see everything and can you say with complete honesty that everything thy're stating is correct when you weren't there? NO and you follow it blindly by faith so tell are we really that different. What is different from you following results blindly and from me following something I have seen with my own eyes.
And of course Richard Dawkins will say that and do you know why because he went in search of things God supposedly did wrong he went with the close mindedness you answer me back with everyday. Do you know why he said those things because he understands absolutely nothing of what he read how could he when he was only searching for ammunition he could break faith with and I'm telling you he is not winning because this is the first time in my life I've heard about him and I love to read. Just know I'll be praying that God will open your eyes and saying that I'm not trying to push religion down your throat I just feel I have too.
I am not blindly following science!
I do not need to go to space to confirm the world is round. (this example mentioned earlier, not sure here or somewhere else)
Why I agree with evolution is because its the BEST known understanding of where we all came from.
You say (I think, but I'm positive that you wouldn't want to embarrass yourself) THAT God just popped man into existence and also magically created the Earth etc etc etc. I can't begin to tell you how utterly ridiculous that sounds! It is ridiculous!
Here's a thought (proven too) The universe began by the 'Big Bang' where all matter was spread out (and continues to spread out) It then cooled and the gases formed solids.
Hmm, I don't know (!!!) but I think the 'evolution' story sounds more correct, Don't You?
We actually teach it (evolution) to all public school children.
Whereas 'religion' has been banned.
As for Richard cherry picking the 'bad stuff'. The bible (and qur'an) is the most horrible immoral fiction book of all time.
Since you agree that it must be interpreted, please keep it as far away as possible from ALL children.
Is it normal that I despise religous people?
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Quote: "I know science exists I just don't believe in evolution please don't start something about that"
It is my main area of debate you know! Oh well, I won't speak of this fact then. Just know that even the Pope believes in evolution, and so do many other 'believers'. Plus its taught to ALL public school children in school. AND I just mentioned that the new Boson particle has just been discovered, confirming where ALL matter came from. Anyway, I won't go on about this, as you asked me not to.
But, it is strange because you write like you have learned things in life and evolution is just so damn obvious. Please look up all the facts on this, it is just TOO basic to speak of.
Quote: "you seem to forget we're all just human none greater or lesser than the other"
As per normal backward logic from a religious person.
Atheists not only believe all people are equal, they ALSO believe that ALL life is important.
Its the 'religious' people who say other PEOPLE are sad for not knowing Jesus! Or no other lifeforms except people, have souls! And the billions of years of life before people came into existence on Earth? You do realize that 'people' have only walked this Earth for 200K years, Not BILLIONS of years! Note: ALL LIFE IS IMPORTANT, generally because the people 'soul' (as per present 'religious' definition) is NOT real.
Quote: "how did it all start you say through science but even the tiniest cell had to be created how are all the animals how are we here how did we come to exist?"
Evolution. Wait I thought you said you didn't want to bring that up?
If you seriously want the answer to that question ask again and I'll write back how life formed on Earth, but it IS public knowledge, I mean just watch a youtube video on it. By the way other galaxies (other than our own Milky Way) formed way before Earth formed! Who knows there may likely be life out there already (actually its highly likely)
Quote: "I only asked that you stop being disrespectful to other people's religion and beliefs"
I know (well actually you DID ask other questions too) But, its like a child saying something that's obviously wrong, I just feel compelled to tell them the truth, or enlighten them on what we now know as fact. Be fully aware that 'religion' consistently changes to suit new advances and discoveries in science. There are thousands of examples on this.
Quote: "I'm just really curious that's all just a simple question ARE you trying to start a dispute of hateful words????"
Oh dear I have to say this paragraph again: (I've quoted it MANY times)
Religions are our fantasy when reality is too complex to understand. Simple people like simple answers. How did the universe begin ? Simple – God magically made it. Complex – in the Science of cosmology you can learn about how the universe exists and what we have observed about it's beginnings.
The simple answer takes 2 seconds. The complex answer takes 10-15 years of dedicated study and even then, you still won't have all the answers you were looking for, but you will have facts, evidence, observation, models that have predictive capabilities, truth and reality. God & Faith are never answers to anything. They are when you want to give up and let your mind enjoy the simple, untruthful fantasy of knowing nothing at all.
Quote: "Are you trying to make me angry..."
Seriously NO. Definitely NOT. Trust me I truthfully mean this. I don't know how to make you see this 100% NO I do not want to make you angry.
In saying that, its INEVITABLE that you will get angry. ALL religious people do when losing an intelligent debate. It has seriously happened Every Single Time, I have brought up common sense, realistic, KNOWN facts and totally cleared up all confusions. Inevitably the 'religious guy gets upset and angry, I suspect through emotional defense or something?
You are obviously not aware of where we are with our understanding of all life and even the entire universe. We have gone thousands of years into the future since the Bible. I'm telling you, that we now know things that are true that we did not before. By the way, why didn't god write (or recite) that the world is round in the Bible? That itself would have helped us understand more about ourselves straight away.
Science is researching and finding facts about us and the universe and where we came from, every single day.
Religion does absolutely nothing. Zero. Although it may help us to know how absolutely ignorant we once were.
Don't praise the 'Lord'. LEARN and try to better our world. Its ok to ask questions AND to get answers. The 'church' is WRONG and ALL should know this immediately.
Public school children are now taught about Evolution. Note don't think of it as a theory, since the 'theory of gravity' is less known about than Evolution! In science Theory=Fact (for us mere people)
Plus 'religion' has been REMOVED from public school. Don't you wonder why?
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hate2love
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I'm sorry that I tried to say something that you cannot understand in my point of view because you have no base of religion when I talked about how people existed the thought of evolution never jumped in my head same as the fact that God created everything never jumped in yours. It won't help explaining our beliefs for EITHER of us because we both see things differently.
And about only humans have souls I agree with you that every life form is important I believe that my dog is in heaven and all the animals that died what would heaven be without all the things God created if it exists it's there because God deemed it important enough to make.
And religion being taken out of schools have you ever stopped to think about the fact that there are many different religions and that if you base a place on one religion it will be a catastrophic event because everyone is different.
And no dad I'm really not angry it's just I don't know how to explain it to you. OK I'll make you a deal I'll watch your video on youtube if you watch mine I think that's fair if you are strong in your belief it won't bother you to watch it. Please just go watch DEON HOCKEY on youtube you can pick any video of where he heals people just one.
The only reason I may get upset is because your still saying in every reply that you'd hang Him I just find it really disrespectful.
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OMG the healing powers of Deon Hockey a South African Evangelist. Are you serious?
Are you suggesting that people should go to this man for help instead of scientifically educated doctors? Because if you did that to your sick children you would be charged for neglect or even manslaughter if they died.
The ONLY reason why these religious healers exist is because people are desperate.
This is the same as religious people taking in the homeless and desperate people on the streets. Its not 'god' that saves them, it is the human caring and help these desperate people receive whilst in need. This is actually one of the main reasons why religion concerns me so much, they pray on the weak and helpless, then try to 'help' them (sometimes providing that needed help fully) THEN say it was the 'Lord' that helped them not the natural human behaviour of people helping others! It is actually shameful and deceitful of these religious people to have another agenda other than just helping someone out of the kindness of their heart.
This religious nut job does NOT heal others.
If he did, every single doctor and scientist and anyone who are beyond our present curing medical abilities would say, try Deon Hockey because he heals others!! They don't say this because its ridiculous, NOT proven effective, and is actually likely the opposite effect, people could HURT their body further by believing all is ok now, I'm Healed! Hmm, I might go do some bungy jumping since my back is all ok now!!! Seriously this type of person can cause more harm than good. It is deceiving and blinding people to 'believe' in something that is false. I hope you are not suggesting that people should find relief in lying to themselves, because that's just cruel. You're all ok now, run and prosper (he'll be dead tomorrow, don't tell him!)
I dearly hope that you do just look at one of those youtube videos on evolution and our universe. I'm positive that you have not ever done this before.
Ned Flanders: "I say there's some things people don't want to know, important things." LOL
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hate2love
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Yes go to scientifically educated doctors go and see if they will be able to get a paralyzed person to push out their own wheel chair in one doctors visit let's see them cure a person of brain cancer taking away all traces that the cancer ever existed. Let's see them heal the blind like I've witnessed with my own eyes the healing of the Lord if you want to live in your own little world be my guest you say with science you see all the facts open your eyes and you'll see there are things greater than science. I've seen people of eighty with ten percent hearing throw away their hearing aids I've seen peoples legs grow yes a doctor can do that too but it won't be your leg when your buying it in a shop.
Really tell me what's greater being full of plastic and metal or having what God gave you without little gadgets you have to replace every few years. Tell me how a little girl who had no hope of ever walking because ' scientifically educated doctors' told her there was nothing they could do, how did she suddenly stand up and walk really can someone really be that dense and blind to the facts right in front of them. Now you tell me what is child negligence removing all hope of ever having a normal life or ridding them all the problems that keep them from living a full happy life? What would you want for your children?
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You would think these 'miracles' would be made publicly available?
Actually, for some (unknown) reason, it is my understanding that religious people feel that science tries to hide certain things, ie like miracles being performed, and also how they may not know as much as they promote?
This couldn't be further from the truth.
Science WELCOMES everything. Scientists are extremely happy to speak of any 'miracle' that is beyond the scope of their present understanding, even if it was 'God's' will.
But, strangely there have been ZERO reported 'miracles'?? ZERO! I mean this even includes the miracles written in the Bible (some 2000 years ago in the Middle East) EVEN those miracles are reported officially as false, No evidence, No other literature on the subject or person, nothing!
So unless you think these 'healing' churches are hiding their 'miracles'. They just DON'T happen.
It would be wonderous if people could actually see or walk again, if they weren't able to before. But nothing written anywhere (except obviously in the church and in Pastor's minds) NO news article (unbiased of course) NOTHING.
So why would science 'hide' these things? I'd actually seriously like to know what is in the minds of religious people? You honestly feel that 'science' or scientists would hide these miracles? Crazy thoughts.
IF anyone, or any church, or any 'divine' action EVER happens (so far NOTHING) then science would be investigating it until the end of time. But there is no investigation on miracles or 'divine' action from the Lord, again NOTHING.
I am positive that religious people feel that science is against them. They are NOT. Simply science states just to confirm the person who could not see or walk to get a scientific analysis of their situation, and then to attend church and witness the 'miracle'! BUT the only facts here are we don't actually know if 1. Were they REALLY blind to begin with 2. Can they now really see? As yet NO evidence, not even a miniscle, NOTHING!
Next you say you witnessed this yourself.
You are not a doctor or a scientist, and therefore what you feel you saw may not be the truth (highly likely actually 100%)
The next time you attend one of these churches say STOP everyone, the world should know about this miracle, and science is open arms to new discoveries. Get this handicapped or blind person tested fully publicly first, until its scientifically conclusive, THEN perform the miracle.
Strangely the church have never agreed to this. And the initial 'doctor's' report, seems to always come from a 'religious' person of the same church?! You'd think they'd want to show the world these miracles? Unless of course they are UNTRUE. ;)
I'm going to quote Richard Dawkins from The God Delusion, because it is relevant here (Do note, he is a scientist)
“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
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hate2love
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Yes I may not be a scientist but these people He heals have been in my church for years I can say without a doubt that they were blind and paralyzed and they are publicly available if you went on youtube you'll see what your asking for. And come on really how many magazines are there with the miracles your looking for don't tell me these people are just lying scientists may give you the facts but were you there did you see everything and can you say with complete honesty that everything thy're stating is correct when you weren't there? NO and you follow it blindly by faith so tell are we really that different. What is different from you following results blindly and from me following something I have seen with my own eyes.
And of course Richard Dawkins will say that and do you know why because he went in search of things God supposedly did wrong he went with the close mindedness you answer me back with everyday. Do you know why he said those things because he understands absolutely nothing of what he read how could he when he was only searching for ammunition he could break faith with and I'm telling you he is not winning because this is the first time in my life I've heard about him and I love to read. Just know I'll be praying that God will open your eyes and saying that I'm not trying to push religion down your throat I just feel I have too.
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I am not blindly following science!
I do not need to go to space to confirm the world is round. (this example mentioned earlier, not sure here or somewhere else)
Why I agree with evolution is because its the BEST known understanding of where we all came from.
You say (I think, but I'm positive that you wouldn't want to embarrass yourself) THAT God just popped man into existence and also magically created the Earth etc etc etc. I can't begin to tell you how utterly ridiculous that sounds! It is ridiculous!
Here's a thought (proven too) The universe began by the 'Big Bang' where all matter was spread out (and continues to spread out) It then cooled and the gases formed solids.
Hmm, I don't know (!!!) but I think the 'evolution' story sounds more correct, Don't You?
We actually teach it (evolution) to all public school children.
Whereas 'religion' has been banned.
As for Richard cherry picking the 'bad stuff'. The bible (and qur'an) is the most horrible immoral fiction book of all time.
Since you agree that it must be interpreted, please keep it as far away as possible from ALL children.