You're right, that was completely irrational, glad you realized that yourself.
Not the whole IIN community, the majority. There are many old time users still around that don't even bother commenting anymore because of how the community has turned. Do I think I am the pinnacle or rational thinking? No. Do I think I am more rational than people on here? Definetly. Do I think I am the most rational person here? No.
So, you're saying that if someone "moans" about something that they forfit all of their intelligence and reasoning? So if you moan, you instantly become "illogicla", "irrational", etc? This is the irrationality I'm talking about.
The only thing that I can not blame you for putting in that list is the emotional part. Am I sharing an emotion here? Yes. Am I lketting it ovecome my reasoning? No.
Well you obviously don't know what irrational and rational thinking are.
The situations are not the same, those examples were far off, especially the second one.
I am not being abused here, I am being fed up here. I am staying because I was here first, I respect some users on here, and I have become acustomed to this site. I use this more than Facebook. I know that one day this generation will move away from the site, and that's wha I'm waiting for.
The second one is just insulting. The problem here is that he can't get away from them without having to suffer by paying money, all because he wasn't allowed to be a parent due to his wife basically not letting him, only using him as a money bringer. What this man is going through is different to what I'm doing.
Like I said, I'm waiting for this generation to pass by. Do I think I'm more rational than most users here? Definetly. Do I think I am the most rational on this site? Obviously not.
No I didn't say you abandon all intelligence and reasoning when you 'moan' about something. I don't know what lines you were reading between, but that seems like quite a strange conclusion to jump to - quite an irrational one in fact.
My point was that for someone who prides themselves on being more rational than the majority of the community, it seems to be distinctly irrational to continue participation in a community you seem to dislike so much.
However, if you're simply waiting for the community to magically return back to what you think was the golden-age of IIN, then OK, that's a valid and rational reason, although you may be waiting a long time.
I don't see why that second analogy was insulting to you, or why it would be insulting to anybody else frankly. That seems like an overly emotional response to my very simple perspective; I don't think the central problem in this case is the OP not being able to parent how he deems appropriate, nor that he can't get away without paying money. I see the central problem as being his continuing in a family unit he despises. Why put yourself through the endless stress and anger just so you can remain with a wife you hate and your children whom you also hate? I think that's irrational - it's irrational because rationally a person aspires towards a life without trouble and suffering since it tends to go hand in hand with a long existence and happiness. He's staying in a situation which clearly makes the possibility of his finding happiness minute, which is like someone shooting you in the foot and then you complaining about it for hours and hours instead of going to a doctor.
(FYI: "Well you obviously don't know what irrational and rational thinking are." I do. Rationality is sensible and logical reasoning, it's very simple isn't it? Although you may want to consider that first part - 'sensible'. That's where the subjectivity lies - where one person's sensible can be another's insensible, where one person's rational can be another's irrational. There is no absolute)
He doesn't dislike the community, he dislikes what it's turning into.
Frankly, I can't say I blame him.
This site was designed as a safe place to share how you 'really' feel, but is abused by many users as a safe place to create even more lies about the self-image.
His comments -hell, my comments- got a hell of a lot more popular when they became less opionated and structured, and more 'funny' and whimsical. It happened to a bunch of users, really.
ItDuz has been here 1 year longer than I have, so I can't dispute his claim that the 1st 'generation' of IINers he experienced were superior. However, In the year I've been here I haven't noticed a deterioration. It's not perfect, but I don't see anything that wasn't around from when I started coming.
I don't feel like the quality of user contributions here has declined. Also, as much as on occasion the joke comments are the most popular (as is the case here), I actually see the reverse as frequently; the most fully-formed answers are often at the top.
Yet you haven't explained why it's irrational. Am I supposed to just take your word for it? If you offer a point and I counter that point, will you accept that or will you just say something that implies you aren't going to continue mainly because you can't? Explain why the conclusion I have made is irrational.
I am waiting for the next IIN generation. Do I think it will be better than before? Most likely not, but anything is better than this generation, and even if it is a little better than this one, I would have made the right choice to stick around.
What anology? The part in which you compared me to two different situations? That was not emotion saying you were wrong, that was rationality. I explained why they are not comparable to my situation.
You do realize how a divorce can financially cripple men, right? If he does this he may never have the chance to lead another life to the extent he did before the divorce and departcher from the family. You seem to think that they can just poof out of a disrespectful family. If he was to do that, he would suffer, and the family will be seen as the victims.
This man has thought about them, and he has said the risk he runs is losing his home and his paycheck. So it's not that easy. If you think it's irrational to not leave a family because you run the risk of being bled dry with no chance of starting a new family, then that's very irrational of you.
Yes, and if he divorced and left, he would have more problems and troubles.
It's not at all like that example. It's more like being shot in the foot, going to the doctors, being denied treatment, then moaning for hours.
There is an absolute. If ones rationality is able to prove the others rationality wrong, the rationality that was proven right is the correct one.
If doing so makes you annoyed, and you don't wish to be annoyed, continuing in a situation where you're annoyed surrounded by people who annoy you seems irrational. Simple rationality - I don't want to be annoyed, therefore I won't want to stay in this situation where I am annoyed.
However... and did you not read this bit because of your dull self-absorbed tunnel-vision or did you forget to actually understand it?
"If you're simply waiting for the community to magically return back to what you think was the golden-age of IIN, then OK, that's a valid and rational reason." You see the bit where I say your reason to stick around now makes sense. It's a rational reason. Without that justification your actions seemed irrational, with the justification they now seem rational. Do you understand? How something can seem irrational until it is explained? Do you see how I mentioned that in the previous post?
You said,
"The situations are not the same, those examples were far off, especially the second one." Those 'situations' were analogies, or similes to put it more simply for you.
You said,
"The second one is just insulting." Being insulted, having your feelings hurt, finding something objectionable on the grounds that it makes you sad or angry is an emotional response. An emotional response can be perfectly rational, the two are not mutually exclusive (did you know that?).
However, I don't see why you should find that insulting, or indeed the OP. Even if the OP in this case could well find himself paying a lot of money to his family if he left, he's paying a lot now, not just economically, but also in terms of his well-being. There's that saying - better to be poor and happy than rich and miserable. Perhaps it's better to be rich and miserable than poor and miserable, but, using the magical power of empathy most people are imbued with, if I were in his situation, I expect I'd try to get out of his situation. I wouldn't just sit around fuming and hyperventilating in order to hang on to my financial assets. If you find my opinion insulting then the internet must be a very upsetting place for you.
And there isn't an absolute. We have an agreed understanding of the world and what makes sense, but there are limits to the lengths to which we can all agree, and it's not as simple as one train of thought usurping another based on reason (as a child might think), reason itself isn't solid. What may seem rational in one civilisation could be absolutely irrational in another. This makes context of paramount importance, which proves in my mind (not necessarily in yours) that rationality is fluid and variable.
I know how these debates between you and other users play out; you accusing the person of not understanding or accepting that you're right in every way, the other person accusing you of not understanding or accepting that they are right in every way... Never-ending because neither party shifts. Because I have the benefit of foresight, I can safely say I care only up to this point and can't care any further. I don't feel I have any more of value to say, and I have a feeling neither do you. So for me this is The End :)
What? You aren't making any sense. What are you getting at here? That I didn't listen to you? That was what this whole point was about:
"I am waiting for the next IIN generation. Do I think it will be better than before? Most likely not, but anything is better than this generation, and even if it is a little better than this one, I would have made the right choice to stick around." just with more reason as to why and my thoughts on it.
So the "your dull self-absorbed tunnel-vision or did you forget to actually understand it?" was so completely and unbelievably ironic. You were too dull, self-absorbed, tunnel-visioned that you could not understand that I was agreeing with you and adding a little more of my thoughts in to that by also replying to the part in which you said I think it will become like the golden days of IIN. Again, ironic. Don't call someone things that you yourself are so oblivious to be giving a fine example of unintentionally, it just makes you laughable.
Wrong. So it is only rational until the other agrees that it is rational? That's like saying something isn't true until it's proven, the fact was that the truth was always there, we just never grasped it. That was an example, and in this situation you are saying that something is only rational until proven rational, which is just irrational. The rational conclusion is always there, it doesn't just become rational when proven, it was always rational, it was just not agreed to be rational, that doesn't mean that because it wasn't agreed to that it was never the right rationality. Again, your whole mentality here is that something is not true unless it is proven, instead of it is always true, we just need to find a way to make others understand it is.
Yes, and I said that those were not at all comparable to what you are saying they are comparable to. You are trying to link them to the situation at hand, which were completely irrational, and I explained why.
You are saying emotion can be used for rational thinking? Obviously you are wrong. Can both be part of a point? Yes. I can say "fuck you, you asshole" with emotion, then explain why I feel that way and what made me feel that way with rational thinking. (Did you know that?)
And his house. You forgot to mention his house. He will have to find a new area, and pay for a new house that he previously had.
So you're basically trying to say that he should just leave? If anything, he should kick his wife out, and make her pay child support. He will have his house, his paycheck, and he'd be able to look after his kids better.
The poor and happy thing is just a terrible line. I could go in to detail to explain why, but surely you would already know.
By insulting I didn't mean insulting to me personaly, I meant insulting to the situation.
The reason part has already been explained above. You told me about being repetative, yet you are basically doing it.
Is it normal that I DESPISE my kids?
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You're right, that was completely irrational, glad you realized that yourself.
Not the whole IIN community, the majority. There are many old time users still around that don't even bother commenting anymore because of how the community has turned. Do I think I am the pinnacle or rational thinking? No. Do I think I am more rational than people on here? Definetly. Do I think I am the most rational person here? No.
So, you're saying that if someone "moans" about something that they forfit all of their intelligence and reasoning? So if you moan, you instantly become "illogicla", "irrational", etc? This is the irrationality I'm talking about.
The only thing that I can not blame you for putting in that list is the emotional part. Am I sharing an emotion here? Yes. Am I lketting it ovecome my reasoning? No.
Well you obviously don't know what irrational and rational thinking are.
The situations are not the same, those examples were far off, especially the second one.
I am not being abused here, I am being fed up here. I am staying because I was here first, I respect some users on here, and I have become acustomed to this site. I use this more than Facebook. I know that one day this generation will move away from the site, and that's wha I'm waiting for.
The second one is just insulting. The problem here is that he can't get away from them without having to suffer by paying money, all because he wasn't allowed to be a parent due to his wife basically not letting him, only using him as a money bringer. What this man is going through is different to what I'm doing.
Like I said, I'm waiting for this generation to pass by. Do I think I'm more rational than most users here? Definetly. Do I think I am the most rational on this site? Obviously not.
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No I didn't say you abandon all intelligence and reasoning when you 'moan' about something. I don't know what lines you were reading between, but that seems like quite a strange conclusion to jump to - quite an irrational one in fact.
My point was that for someone who prides themselves on being more rational than the majority of the community, it seems to be distinctly irrational to continue participation in a community you seem to dislike so much.
However, if you're simply waiting for the community to magically return back to what you think was the golden-age of IIN, then OK, that's a valid and rational reason, although you may be waiting a long time.
I don't see why that second analogy was insulting to you, or why it would be insulting to anybody else frankly. That seems like an overly emotional response to my very simple perspective; I don't think the central problem in this case is the OP not being able to parent how he deems appropriate, nor that he can't get away without paying money. I see the central problem as being his continuing in a family unit he despises. Why put yourself through the endless stress and anger just so you can remain with a wife you hate and your children whom you also hate? I think that's irrational - it's irrational because rationally a person aspires towards a life without trouble and suffering since it tends to go hand in hand with a long existence and happiness. He's staying in a situation which clearly makes the possibility of his finding happiness minute, which is like someone shooting you in the foot and then you complaining about it for hours and hours instead of going to a doctor.
(FYI: "Well you obviously don't know what irrational and rational thinking are." I do. Rationality is sensible and logical reasoning, it's very simple isn't it? Although you may want to consider that first part - 'sensible'. That's where the subjectivity lies - where one person's sensible can be another's insensible, where one person's rational can be another's irrational. There is no absolute)
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He doesn't dislike the community, he dislikes what it's turning into.
Frankly, I can't say I blame him.
This site was designed as a safe place to share how you 'really' feel, but is abused by many users as a safe place to create even more lies about the self-image.
His comments -hell, my comments- got a hell of a lot more popular when they became less opionated and structured, and more 'funny' and whimsical. It happened to a bunch of users, really.
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That's fine.
ItDuz has been here 1 year longer than I have, so I can't dispute his claim that the 1st 'generation' of IINers he experienced were superior. However, In the year I've been here I haven't noticed a deterioration. It's not perfect, but I don't see anything that wasn't around from when I started coming.
I don't feel like the quality of user contributions here has declined. Also, as much as on occasion the joke comments are the most popular (as is the case here), I actually see the reverse as frequently; the most fully-formed answers are often at the top.
Yet you haven't explained why it's irrational. Am I supposed to just take your word for it? If you offer a point and I counter that point, will you accept that or will you just say something that implies you aren't going to continue mainly because you can't? Explain why the conclusion I have made is irrational.
I am waiting for the next IIN generation. Do I think it will be better than before? Most likely not, but anything is better than this generation, and even if it is a little better than this one, I would have made the right choice to stick around.
What anology? The part in which you compared me to two different situations? That was not emotion saying you were wrong, that was rationality. I explained why they are not comparable to my situation.
You do realize how a divorce can financially cripple men, right? If he does this he may never have the chance to lead another life to the extent he did before the divorce and departcher from the family. You seem to think that they can just poof out of a disrespectful family. If he was to do that, he would suffer, and the family will be seen as the victims.
This man has thought about them, and he has said the risk he runs is losing his home and his paycheck. So it's not that easy. If you think it's irrational to not leave a family because you run the risk of being bled dry with no chance of starting a new family, then that's very irrational of you.
Yes, and if he divorced and left, he would have more problems and troubles.
It's not at all like that example. It's more like being shot in the foot, going to the doctors, being denied treatment, then moaning for hours.
There is an absolute. If ones rationality is able to prove the others rationality wrong, the rationality that was proven right is the correct one.
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Ugh you're so repetitive in your debates.
Look here, read this:
If doing so makes you annoyed, and you don't wish to be annoyed, continuing in a situation where you're annoyed surrounded by people who annoy you seems irrational. Simple rationality - I don't want to be annoyed, therefore I won't want to stay in this situation where I am annoyed.
However... and did you not read this bit because of your dull self-absorbed tunnel-vision or did you forget to actually understand it?
"If you're simply waiting for the community to magically return back to what you think was the golden-age of IIN, then OK, that's a valid and rational reason." You see the bit where I say your reason to stick around now makes sense. It's a rational reason. Without that justification your actions seemed irrational, with the justification they now seem rational. Do you understand? How something can seem irrational until it is explained? Do you see how I mentioned that in the previous post?
You said,
"The situations are not the same, those examples were far off, especially the second one." Those 'situations' were analogies, or similes to put it more simply for you.
You said,
"The second one is just insulting." Being insulted, having your feelings hurt, finding something objectionable on the grounds that it makes you sad or angry is an emotional response. An emotional response can be perfectly rational, the two are not mutually exclusive (did you know that?).
However, I don't see why you should find that insulting, or indeed the OP. Even if the OP in this case could well find himself paying a lot of money to his family if he left, he's paying a lot now, not just economically, but also in terms of his well-being. There's that saying - better to be poor and happy than rich and miserable. Perhaps it's better to be rich and miserable than poor and miserable, but, using the magical power of empathy most people are imbued with, if I were in his situation, I expect I'd try to get out of his situation. I wouldn't just sit around fuming and hyperventilating in order to hang on to my financial assets. If you find my opinion insulting then the internet must be a very upsetting place for you.
And there isn't an absolute. We have an agreed understanding of the world and what makes sense, but there are limits to the lengths to which we can all agree, and it's not as simple as one train of thought usurping another based on reason (as a child might think), reason itself isn't solid. What may seem rational in one civilisation could be absolutely irrational in another. This makes context of paramount importance, which proves in my mind (not necessarily in yours) that rationality is fluid and variable.
I know how these debates between you and other users play out; you accusing the person of not understanding or accepting that you're right in every way, the other person accusing you of not understanding or accepting that they are right in every way... Never-ending because neither party shifts. Because I have the benefit of foresight, I can safely say I care only up to this point and can't care any further. I don't feel I have any more of value to say, and I have a feeling neither do you. So for me this is The End :)
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What? You aren't making any sense. What are you getting at here? That I didn't listen to you? That was what this whole point was about:
"I am waiting for the next IIN generation. Do I think it will be better than before? Most likely not, but anything is better than this generation, and even if it is a little better than this one, I would have made the right choice to stick around." just with more reason as to why and my thoughts on it.
So the "your dull self-absorbed tunnel-vision or did you forget to actually understand it?" was so completely and unbelievably ironic. You were too dull, self-absorbed, tunnel-visioned that you could not understand that I was agreeing with you and adding a little more of my thoughts in to that by also replying to the part in which you said I think it will become like the golden days of IIN. Again, ironic. Don't call someone things that you yourself are so oblivious to be giving a fine example of unintentionally, it just makes you laughable.
Wrong. So it is only rational until the other agrees that it is rational? That's like saying something isn't true until it's proven, the fact was that the truth was always there, we just never grasped it. That was an example, and in this situation you are saying that something is only rational until proven rational, which is just irrational. The rational conclusion is always there, it doesn't just become rational when proven, it was always rational, it was just not agreed to be rational, that doesn't mean that because it wasn't agreed to that it was never the right rationality. Again, your whole mentality here is that something is not true unless it is proven, instead of it is always true, we just need to find a way to make others understand it is.
Yes, and I said that those were not at all comparable to what you are saying they are comparable to. You are trying to link them to the situation at hand, which were completely irrational, and I explained why.
You are saying emotion can be used for rational thinking? Obviously you are wrong. Can both be part of a point? Yes. I can say "fuck you, you asshole" with emotion, then explain why I feel that way and what made me feel that way with rational thinking. (Did you know that?)
And his house. You forgot to mention his house. He will have to find a new area, and pay for a new house that he previously had.
So you're basically trying to say that he should just leave? If anything, he should kick his wife out, and make her pay child support. He will have his house, his paycheck, and he'd be able to look after his kids better.
The poor and happy thing is just a terrible line. I could go in to detail to explain why, but surely you would already know.
By insulting I didn't mean insulting to me personaly, I meant insulting to the situation.
The reason part has already been explained above. You told me about being repetative, yet you are basically doing it.
Ta ta.