That is a stereotype. There are girls who fit your type everywhere in the world, and girls who don't. I'd even say that I think there's a greater variation within one cultural area than there is between the average of two - especially in the case of America and Europe, which aren't that different in our globalized world.
Seriously? I go to Europe on business trips on occasion. If you are well mannered so that they think you are not American, the personal warmth, graciousness, and mutual respect is well beyond anything you will encounter in the US.
I react negatively to the people in my continent being generalized and stereotyped. Even if the assessment is positive, generalizing people dehumanizes them and shows how a very shallow and narrow understanding of European life.
Even if you have been met with greater warmth in Europe than at home (not surprising, for a lot of reasons. For one: sucking up to foreign travelers = money.), surely you have to admit that saying "European girls are like this" is dumb.
OK, I'll quantify for you. Take a random sample of 10 European and 10 American women, both from urban areas. It seems to me that 7 of the 10 European women are warmer than the median of the American sample. Of course, this is subjective. My behavior may be skewing the results.
I disagree that statistical distributions generalize or dehumanize people. To the contrary, it is the best method to account for individual differences.
That number is plucked from thin air unless you made a conscious effort to observe behaviour as objectively as you reasonably could in Europe and the US and you literally counted all the mean women and all the nice women in each place. It's still a general impression, not a real statistic. You have to real research to generate a real statistic. Putting a number on a general impression doesn't give it any greater validity.
It's based on my objective samples from London, Madrid, and Zurich. I did count nice women and nasty women, excluding restaurant and hotel staff that are paid to be nice. You are right that it is not a real statistic. For an objective study, several samples with different types of men would be needed.
Anyway, no problem being a pissed off European with great aspirations for sexual conquests all over the world. Why not travel about testing your null hypothesis on uniformity with some ANOVA?
If you really did do those observations in Europe and America, and quantified your data honestly, you have a real and valid statistic and I am impressed by your dedication to data collection.
Wow. Didn't you just say you react negatively to people in your continent being generalised and stereotyped? But you're generalising the whole of Europe with all of its economic variations as being so desperate for money that they'll 'suck up' to American tourists?
OP - I'm English, and in my experience (excluding Essex) Europeans are less fake in their appearance. Other than that, I couldn't vouch for the rest of what you're saying.
Dom180 - before you kick off, I have no problem stereotyping, and never said I did :)
I think you've got me wrong. All I meant was that there is an explanation for their apparent warmer personalities besides that idea that they're just nicer people (that they're just nicer people is, for me, a really unsatisfying explanation).
We live in a capitalist society where emotion work is a very well documented phenomena. If I am making any criticisms, they're of the capitalist society not the European people.
I didn't actually get the impression from the OP's post that he thinks Europeans are 'warmer' - he just says they 'know how to respect men'. This sounds more to me like he's kind of sexist and prefers the submissive attitude of East Europeans to the independent attitude of Americans and Brits. Russian, Greek, Romanian, Ukrainian, Czech, and Polish girls in particular are definitely more traditional in their gender-roles. Still not buying the whole financial incentive thing though.
I wouldn't know whether Eastern European and Mediterranean women were more interested in traditional gender roles, although my general impression was also that the original post was sexist.
I didn't get the warmth impression from the OP, though. I only mentioned warmness in my replies to green_boogers, not in my original comment to the original post.
When you go to a foreign country, most of the local people you meet are paid to provide you a service. Restaurant staff, hotel staff, people who work in the tourist industry... these are all people who are literally paid to be nice to you. Unless you go off the beaten track, you might not talk to a single person who *isn't* paid to be nice to you. I just don't think it's fair to use these people as examples to say anything about the culture they are from.
I think you need to go to different parts of America. Maybe you live in a rural area. People in the bigger city areas of America are extremely health-conscious and fashion-forward (new york, boston, chicago)and if you want warmth/friendliness, go to areas like Seattle/Portland. Also, where I've traveled in the US, I rarely see women with fake tans...do you happen to hail from Hollywood California? I don't know where to find fake tans as they're not in anymore. I think I spotted one in the past 3 years.
IIN for an American guy to prefer European girls
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That is a stereotype. There are girls who fit your type everywhere in the world, and girls who don't. I'd even say that I think there's a greater variation within one cultural area than there is between the average of two - especially in the case of America and Europe, which aren't that different in our globalized world.
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green_boogers
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Seriously? I go to Europe on business trips on occasion. If you are well mannered so that they think you are not American, the personal warmth, graciousness, and mutual respect is well beyond anything you will encounter in the US.
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dom180
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I react negatively to the people in my continent being generalized and stereotyped. Even if the assessment is positive, generalizing people dehumanizes them and shows how a very shallow and narrow understanding of European life.
Even if you have been met with greater warmth in Europe than at home (not surprising, for a lot of reasons. For one: sucking up to foreign travelers = money.), surely you have to admit that saying "European girls are like this" is dumb.
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OK, I'll quantify for you. Take a random sample of 10 European and 10 American women, both from urban areas. It seems to me that 7 of the 10 European women are warmer than the median of the American sample. Of course, this is subjective. My behavior may be skewing the results.
I disagree that statistical distributions generalize or dehumanize people. To the contrary, it is the best method to account for individual differences.
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dom180
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That number is plucked from thin air unless you made a conscious effort to observe behaviour as objectively as you reasonably could in Europe and the US and you literally counted all the mean women and all the nice women in each place. It's still a general impression, not a real statistic. You have to real research to generate a real statistic. Putting a number on a general impression doesn't give it any greater validity.
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It's based on my objective samples from London, Madrid, and Zurich. I did count nice women and nasty women, excluding restaurant and hotel staff that are paid to be nice. You are right that it is not a real statistic. For an objective study, several samples with different types of men would be needed.
Anyway, no problem being a pissed off European with great aspirations for sexual conquests all over the world. Why not travel about testing your null hypothesis on uniformity with some ANOVA?
--
dom180
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If you really did do those observations in Europe and America, and quantified your data honestly, you have a real and valid statistic and I am impressed by your dedication to data collection.
What is your raw data?
For one: sucking up to foreign travelers = money.
Wow. Didn't you just say you react negatively to people in your continent being generalised and stereotyped? But you're generalising the whole of Europe with all of its economic variations as being so desperate for money that they'll 'suck up' to American tourists?
OP - I'm English, and in my experience (excluding Essex) Europeans are less fake in their appearance. Other than that, I couldn't vouch for the rest of what you're saying.
Dom180 - before you kick off, I have no problem stereotyping, and never said I did :)
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dom180
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I think you've got me wrong. All I meant was that there is an explanation for their apparent warmer personalities besides that idea that they're just nicer people (that they're just nicer people is, for me, a really unsatisfying explanation).
We live in a capitalist society where emotion work is a very well documented phenomena. If I am making any criticisms, they're of the capitalist society not the European people.
--
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Hi,
I didn't actually get the impression from the OP's post that he thinks Europeans are 'warmer' - he just says they 'know how to respect men'. This sounds more to me like he's kind of sexist and prefers the submissive attitude of East Europeans to the independent attitude of Americans and Brits. Russian, Greek, Romanian, Ukrainian, Czech, and Polish girls in particular are definitely more traditional in their gender-roles. Still not buying the whole financial incentive thing though.
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dom180
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I wouldn't know whether Eastern European and Mediterranean women were more interested in traditional gender roles, although my general impression was also that the original post was sexist.
I didn't get the warmth impression from the OP, though. I only mentioned warmness in my replies to green_boogers, not in my original comment to the original post.
When you go to a foreign country, most of the local people you meet are paid to provide you a service. Restaurant staff, hotel staff, people who work in the tourist industry... these are all people who are literally paid to be nice to you. Unless you go off the beaten track, you might not talk to a single person who *isn't* paid to be nice to you. I just don't think it's fair to use these people as examples to say anything about the culture they are from.
I think you need to go to different parts of America. Maybe you live in a rural area. People in the bigger city areas of America are extremely health-conscious and fashion-forward (new york, boston, chicago)and if you want warmth/friendliness, go to areas like Seattle/Portland. Also, where I've traveled in the US, I rarely see women with fake tans...do you happen to hail from Hollywood California? I don't know where to find fake tans as they're not in anymore. I think I spotted one in the past 3 years.