It's normal for everyone -- even people with whom you disagree vehemently -- to want respect.
What do you hope to gain from telling someone he believes in stupid fairy tales and adheres to a faith that tells much of the world that it's going to hell? Do you think a Christian is just going to say, "Oh, wow -- you are SO right! Let me just shake off all my years of cultural and social conditioning and embrace atheism!" Of course they won't. They're not going to change your mind about their faith either, so why not set aside differences in favor of finding common ground? You consider their beliefs vile and they consider your beliefs vile, so talk about pizza toppings or TV shows instead.
By the way, you do realize that most religions proclaim that non-believers will go to something like a hell, right? It isn't just Christians. Why be anti-Christian if you aren't anti-religion? That seems short-sighted of you.
Also, it might help to recall that while Christianity was responsible for the Inquisition and the Crusades, it also helped keep literacy alive throughout the Dark Ages and has been the catalyst for some of the world's most magnificent art, architecture and music. Plenty of Christians practice what they preach and give heavily to charity or go on faith-based missions that feed and clothe millions. I'm not at all a fan of fundamentalist Christianity either, but I can acknowledge the faith's good works as well as its evils.
Wow, you've just missed the whole point ENTIRELY (perhaps because you just didn't WANT to see it).
I just think it's kinda weird and hypocritical for Christians to demand respect for their beliefs, when those beliefs are OBVIOUSLY not respectful of a lot of people from whom they demand said respect.
"You consider their beliefs vile and they consider your beliefs vile"
Yes, but I don't believe Christians deserve (and will) be tortured forever, whilst they DO believe that the other way around. So, who's the nicer person here?
"By the way, you do realize that most religions proclaim that non-believers will go to something like a hell, right?"
Yes, sure I know that. I don't agree with those religions either. I think being a good person is just a TEENSY bit more important than what you believe. Too bad the vast majority of religions don't teach that.
Why don't you ask the mother of the young male, who is currently being hunted by the 'polite', why she is using an archaic term, which means, 'wholly war' or 'all war'?
Is this what you want for the future of Planet Earth? All war?
While you're at it, you can ask her about the "religious politics", meaning -ists and -isms.
I guess you'd get all wound up if I told you to turn the other cheek, wouldn't you?
Yes, I got your point. It's obnoxious to expect that others will respect your belief that they are hell-bound heathens. I agree with that part.
You aren't obligated to respect others' religious faith no matter what it is. However, that isn't what you asked. You asked if it was normal for people who believe a certain way to want respect for their beliefs, and that answer is always going to be yes. Of course it's normal that they "whine" about respect; everyone wants to have his or her core beliefs treated with respect -- even if those beliefs are distasteful.
Believe me, I don't love the fundamentalist Christians. One of them told me my sister was burning in hell because she didn't accept JC as her personal blah blah blah before she died in an accident. I was 13 at the time. It put me off that poison pretty much for life. Not every Christian is like that evil fuck, though. Like every other group, they range from wonderful people to utter bastards.
The good ones don't believe you're going to hell; they believe you just haven't found heaven yet and will pray for you to find it. To me, it's daft, but it's well-intentioned. How can I hate all Christians when some are good, kind people?
"I guess you'd get all wound up if I told you to turn the other cheek, wouldn't you?"
Why would I? Turning the other cheek is bad advice, BTW. Taking away the right of self-defense is idiotic.
"You asked if it was normal for people who believe a certain way to want respect for their beliefs, and that answer is always going to be yes. Of course it's normal that they "whine" about respect; everyone wants to have his or her core beliefs treated with respect -- even if those beliefs are distasteful."
I indeed asked if it is normal for people who believe a certain way to want respect for their beliefs. You're also right that the answer to that is always gonna be yes. However, I think people with beliefs they KNOW are distasteful to others, should realize it's unreasonable to be asking those very same people for respect. I mean, hello?
I'm truly sorry your sister died, and I do not for one second believe she is burning in hell. That was a disgusting statement from that Christian piece of shit. I DO know there are also a lot of nice Christians who DON'T believe that. I don't hate those, because they indeed are good people.
However, they are also hypocrites, because, although the Bible is very contradictory about hell (as it is on HUNDREDS of other topics), the view that non-believers will suffer forever in hell REALLY IS dominant.
My beliefs aren't disrespectful in THEMSELVES, they are merely a RESPONSE to your Christian belief.
I consider your beliefs vile and you consider my beliefs vile, I get that, but I don't believe Christians deserve (and will) be tortured forever, whilst you DO believe that the other way around. So, who's the nicer person here?
I never said they were disrespectful. I said that they were distasteful. Besides that, your beliefs aren't disrespectful, but the way your shoving them down people's throats like "Christians" do, is disrespectful. And hey, it's your choice to get tortured in hell. You don't have to be tortured if you don't want to be.
"By the way, you do realize that most religions proclaim that non-believers will go to something like a hell, right?"
I wouldn't agree with that. Some forms of Judaism, Hinduism, Some forms of Islam, Jainism, Shintoism and Buddhism don't necessarily have all non-believers going to hell. Christianity is fairly unique in that the belief all non-believers go to hell is held near universally among sects.
I would have included Mormonism with the other religions had I of known. I don't personally consider Mormonism to be Christian.
You know if it is real and I was going to meet the Mormon God, I would have to ask about Helaman 12:13. Giving people death, terror, famine and disease was the only way to get people to remember him? Surely he could of come up with a better way than that. I mean what about writing his name in the sky or something, I hardly think it fitting for a God to resort to terrorism just to get people to remember him.
LDS is a form of Christianity as the religion is Christ based.
As far as Helaman goes, I can't really comment. It's taught that what God did was a leveling act to remind the people that without God's blessings and aid, they wouldn't have had prosperity to begin with. The citizens became conceited and attributed their good fortune purely to their efforts and fell away from having gratitude for the lord's blessings to utter conceit. His intention wasn't simply to remind them of his presence but rather that he was in control.
In the Mormon faith, the highest sin is direct treason which occurs when one has seen God/undeniable proof of God with their own eyes yet they still refuse to believe, a sin that 99.9% of humanity is incapable of committing in the living world but once committed after seeing God in the celestial kingdom, is damning. This happens in the afterlife rather than the living world, hence why we don't believe an atheist or non-Mormon would be damned. However, our theology regarding the finer points of heaven is more complicated than that.
If God were to show himself to them then they would no longer have faith as faith is belief without proof. As you probably know, Faith is the central pillar of most deity based religions.
The point I made in paragraph one is a valid point regardless of religious preference. From the atheist perspective, no one is truly 100% credited with their achievements. Not when forces of nature beyond their control exist. Not when a car accident could easily ruin your career if it handicaps you. Hence, it's not just your effort but also accommodating circumstances. In the Christian faith, it's not just you, rather, God deserves a share of he credit. In either way, faith or no faith, it is wise to remain humble lest life force you to humility. That's one of the purposes of the story of Helaman.
"LDS is a form of Christianity as the religion is Christ based."
I mean no offence to you but I have looked at both (though I admit that I am not an expert on Mormonism) and to me they are separate religions. Lets be real how many Christians believe that Jesus resurrected himself in America and was walking around there? To me it doesn't make Mormonism any better or worse than Christianity, it is just different. Though I guess Mormon-Christianity would work, anyway it is not up to me. If a majority of people believe Mormonism to be under the umbrella of Christianity then I guess it is so regardless of what I think.
"In either way, faith or no faith, it is wise to remain humble lest life force you to humility. "
Agreed.
"That's one of the purposes of the story of Helaman."
Sorry I don't see it. Let's look at what God apparently does "he doth visit them with death and with terror, and with famine and with all manner of pestilence".
So we have genocide, terrorism, starvation and biological warfare. Honestly I can't see how you can teach people positive things with this method. I also can't see how this was God's best shot at teaching humility. If God is perfect then his actions should be perfect right? So you're telling me genocide, terrorism, starvation and biological warfare is the perfect way to teach humility?
I do thank you for telling me what I have to do to get sent to hell if I ever meet the Mormon God because if that is God then I am going to take my chances with Satan.
If that is his idea of a good lesson, I shudder to think what his heaven is like.
They don't believe Jesus resurrected himself in America, rather he visited when he left the middle East. Christianity is literally defined as a Christ based religion. There are many denominations of Christianity. Not all Christians adhere to the exact same theology, not by a longshot. However, all Christians worship Christ. LDS is no different. Varied in theology but still Christ based.
Like I said, I can't comment on the morality of God's actions in Helaman. The "Mormon God" isn't thay much different from the generic Judeo-Christian God. Helaman isn't much worse than many Bible stories detailing the vengefulness of God. Our God is not a seperate God although you may choose to believe different.
Is it normal Christians whine about respect?
← View full post
It's normal for everyone -- even people with whom you disagree vehemently -- to want respect.
What do you hope to gain from telling someone he believes in stupid fairy tales and adheres to a faith that tells much of the world that it's going to hell? Do you think a Christian is just going to say, "Oh, wow -- you are SO right! Let me just shake off all my years of cultural and social conditioning and embrace atheism!" Of course they won't. They're not going to change your mind about their faith either, so why not set aside differences in favor of finding common ground? You consider their beliefs vile and they consider your beliefs vile, so talk about pizza toppings or TV shows instead.
By the way, you do realize that most religions proclaim that non-believers will go to something like a hell, right? It isn't just Christians. Why be anti-Christian if you aren't anti-religion? That seems short-sighted of you.
Also, it might help to recall that while Christianity was responsible for the Inquisition and the Crusades, it also helped keep literacy alive throughout the Dark Ages and has been the catalyst for some of the world's most magnificent art, architecture and music. Plenty of Christians practice what they preach and give heavily to charity or go on faith-based missions that feed and clothe millions. I'm not at all a fan of fundamentalist Christianity either, but I can acknowledge the faith's good works as well as its evils.
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BLAh81
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Wow, you've just missed the whole point ENTIRELY (perhaps because you just didn't WANT to see it).
I just think it's kinda weird and hypocritical for Christians to demand respect for their beliefs, when those beliefs are OBVIOUSLY not respectful of a lot of people from whom they demand said respect.
"You consider their beliefs vile and they consider your beliefs vile"
Yes, but I don't believe Christians deserve (and will) be tortured forever, whilst they DO believe that the other way around. So, who's the nicer person here?
"By the way, you do realize that most religions proclaim that non-believers will go to something like a hell, right?"
Yes, sure I know that. I don't agree with those religions either. I think being a good person is just a TEENSY bit more important than what you believe. Too bad the vast majority of religions don't teach that.
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noid
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BLAh81
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If you are basing your feelings about Christians on their belief that hell lasts forever,, please note that not all Christians believe this.
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You are correct. The Bible is very contradictory on the subject of Hell (as it is on loads of other subjects BTW).
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/interp/hell.html
I guess Christians don't even know what to believe, LOL.
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BLAh81
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The view that non-Christians will suffer eternally really IS dominant in the Bible, though.
Two divisions, Archaic.
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noid
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I like the word archaic. I'm going to start using it in my conversations with others: )
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Why don't you ask the mother of the young male, who is currently being hunted by the 'polite', why she is using an archaic term, which means, 'wholly war' or 'all war'?
Is this what you want for the future of Planet Earth? All war?
While you're at it, you can ask her about the "religious politics", meaning -ists and -isms.
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noid
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No thanks, I'll pass. You can ask her if you like.
I guess you'd get all wound up if I told you to turn the other cheek, wouldn't you?
Yes, I got your point. It's obnoxious to expect that others will respect your belief that they are hell-bound heathens. I agree with that part.
You aren't obligated to respect others' religious faith no matter what it is. However, that isn't what you asked. You asked if it was normal for people who believe a certain way to want respect for their beliefs, and that answer is always going to be yes. Of course it's normal that they "whine" about respect; everyone wants to have his or her core beliefs treated with respect -- even if those beliefs are distasteful.
Believe me, I don't love the fundamentalist Christians. One of them told me my sister was burning in hell because she didn't accept JC as her personal blah blah blah before she died in an accident. I was 13 at the time. It put me off that poison pretty much for life. Not every Christian is like that evil fuck, though. Like every other group, they range from wonderful people to utter bastards.
The good ones don't believe you're going to hell; they believe you just haven't found heaven yet and will pray for you to find it. To me, it's daft, but it's well-intentioned. How can I hate all Christians when some are good, kind people?
Live and let live. Give respect and get respect.
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"I guess you'd get all wound up if I told you to turn the other cheek, wouldn't you?"
Why would I? Turning the other cheek is bad advice, BTW. Taking away the right of self-defense is idiotic.
"You asked if it was normal for people who believe a certain way to want respect for their beliefs, and that answer is always going to be yes. Of course it's normal that they "whine" about respect; everyone wants to have his or her core beliefs treated with respect -- even if those beliefs are distasteful."
I indeed asked if it is normal for people who believe a certain way to want respect for their beliefs. You're also right that the answer to that is always gonna be yes. However, I think people with beliefs they KNOW are distasteful to others, should realize it's unreasonable to be asking those very same people for respect. I mean, hello?
I'm truly sorry your sister died, and I do not for one second believe she is burning in hell. That was a disgusting statement from that Christian piece of shit. I DO know there are also a lot of nice Christians who DON'T believe that. I don't hate those, because they indeed are good people.
However, they are also hypocrites, because, although the Bible is very contradictory about hell (as it is on HUNDREDS of other topics), the view that non-believers will suffer forever in hell REALLY IS dominant.
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et12356
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Oh, so you believe you shouldn't have respect? Because your beliefs are distasteful to me.
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BLAh81
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My beliefs aren't disrespectful in THEMSELVES, they are merely a RESPONSE to your Christian belief.
I consider your beliefs vile and you consider my beliefs vile, I get that, but I don't believe Christians deserve (and will) be tortured forever, whilst you DO believe that the other way around. So, who's the nicer person here?
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I never said they were disrespectful. I said that they were distasteful. Besides that, your beliefs aren't disrespectful, but the way your shoving them down people's throats like "Christians" do, is disrespectful. And hey, it's your choice to get tortured in hell. You don't have to be tortured if you don't want to be.
Irresponsible. Please see my other comments on this post.
Hmmm, BEING right certainly is something completely different from being ACKNOWLEGED as such.
Two divisions in society. Please see my comment below.
"By the way, you do realize that most religions proclaim that non-believers will go to something like a hell, right?"
I wouldn't agree with that. Some forms of Judaism, Hinduism, Some forms of Islam, Jainism, Shintoism and Buddhism don't necessarily have all non-believers going to hell. Christianity is fairly unique in that the belief all non-believers go to hell is held near universally among sects.
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NeuroNeptunian
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The Mormon faith does not propose that non-believers go to hell unless they see God face to face in the afterlife and still deny him.
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Very interesting thank you for letting me know.
I would have included Mormonism with the other religions had I of known. I don't personally consider Mormonism to be Christian.
You know if it is real and I was going to meet the Mormon God, I would have to ask about Helaman 12:13. Giving people death, terror, famine and disease was the only way to get people to remember him? Surely he could of come up with a better way than that. I mean what about writing his name in the sky or something, I hardly think it fitting for a God to resort to terrorism just to get people to remember him.
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LDS is a form of Christianity as the religion is Christ based.
As far as Helaman goes, I can't really comment. It's taught that what God did was a leveling act to remind the people that without God's blessings and aid, they wouldn't have had prosperity to begin with. The citizens became conceited and attributed their good fortune purely to their efforts and fell away from having gratitude for the lord's blessings to utter conceit. His intention wasn't simply to remind them of his presence but rather that he was in control.
In the Mormon faith, the highest sin is direct treason which occurs when one has seen God/undeniable proof of God with their own eyes yet they still refuse to believe, a sin that 99.9% of humanity is incapable of committing in the living world but once committed after seeing God in the celestial kingdom, is damning. This happens in the afterlife rather than the living world, hence why we don't believe an atheist or non-Mormon would be damned. However, our theology regarding the finer points of heaven is more complicated than that.
If God were to show himself to them then they would no longer have faith as faith is belief without proof. As you probably know, Faith is the central pillar of most deity based religions.
The point I made in paragraph one is a valid point regardless of religious preference. From the atheist perspective, no one is truly 100% credited with their achievements. Not when forces of nature beyond their control exist. Not when a car accident could easily ruin your career if it handicaps you. Hence, it's not just your effort but also accommodating circumstances. In the Christian faith, it's not just you, rather, God deserves a share of he credit. In either way, faith or no faith, it is wise to remain humble lest life force you to humility. That's one of the purposes of the story of Helaman.
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"LDS is a form of Christianity as the religion is Christ based."
I mean no offence to you but I have looked at both (though I admit that I am not an expert on Mormonism) and to me they are separate religions. Lets be real how many Christians believe that Jesus resurrected himself in America and was walking around there? To me it doesn't make Mormonism any better or worse than Christianity, it is just different. Though I guess Mormon-Christianity would work, anyway it is not up to me. If a majority of people believe Mormonism to be under the umbrella of Christianity then I guess it is so regardless of what I think.
"In either way, faith or no faith, it is wise to remain humble lest life force you to humility. "
Agreed.
"That's one of the purposes of the story of Helaman."
Sorry I don't see it. Let's look at what God apparently does "he doth visit them with death and with terror, and with famine and with all manner of pestilence".
So we have genocide, terrorism, starvation and biological warfare. Honestly I can't see how you can teach people positive things with this method. I also can't see how this was God's best shot at teaching humility. If God is perfect then his actions should be perfect right? So you're telling me genocide, terrorism, starvation and biological warfare is the perfect way to teach humility?
I do thank you for telling me what I have to do to get sent to hell if I ever meet the Mormon God because if that is God then I am going to take my chances with Satan.
If that is his idea of a good lesson, I shudder to think what his heaven is like.
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They don't believe Jesus resurrected himself in America, rather he visited when he left the middle East. Christianity is literally defined as a Christ based religion. There are many denominations of Christianity. Not all Christians adhere to the exact same theology, not by a longshot. However, all Christians worship Christ. LDS is no different. Varied in theology but still Christ based.
Like I said, I can't comment on the morality of God's actions in Helaman. The "Mormon God" isn't thay much different from the generic Judeo-Christian God. Helaman isn't much worse than many Bible stories detailing the vengefulness of God. Our God is not a seperate God although you may choose to believe different.
Well, the Mormon faith sure DOES propose a lot (and I do mean A LOT) of other REALLY fucked up things. I mean, it isn't even REMOTELY sane.
BTW, who would be dumb enough to deny God face to face anyway?
"Christianity is fairly unique in that the belief all non-believers go to hell is held near universally among sects."
Well, there are quite some Christians who (hypocritically I think) don't believe all non-believers will go to hell.
"Faith", means to trust. Who do you trust? Who should you trust?
Please do not use the Archaic term referring to a fictitious nether world.
Thank you.
Five divisions in society. Irresponsible. Please see my comment below.
Please do not use -ists or -isms.
Thank you.