Parents have a right to raise their children any way they like. If they want to teach them religion, they should.
You are blowing things way out of proportion. You want parents who teach their children religion to be illegal. That is very ridiculous. There are worse things which should be disallowed, and such parents are not one of those things.
By suggesting this you are dividing the two types of parents in this case - those who teach their children religion and those who do not. One is surely not better than the other. However, just because you see this as wrong, does not mean that to most people it is. Surely, you will be supported by many people, but to what good?
Parents who teach children religion will not teach them any wrong, but what they are taught will be different to how you view the world and live your life. When children grow up they will be adults who will know enough of the world and their place in it to form their own religious or non-religious views.
What wrong does a religious person do by living an honest and clean life? Nothing. Why should it matter to you when noone is being hurt?
As right as it feels in your heart to think and to say this, what they do also feels right in their heart.
Yes, I am dividing parents into two groups: those who teach their children religion, and those who do not.
when i do this, i am carefully considering global harmony.
religion is much more detrimental than helpful. the vast majority of religious people hold views contrary to peace and societal progression. this tragedy can be seen worldwide. if you want me to be specific, believe me--I can. just ask :)
would you teach a young child to shoot a gun with deadly accuracy? by teaching religion, you are doing, in essence, the same thing. religion, being moral in nature, ascribes to practicioners certain virtues that will supposedly lead to a holy earth life and a blissful afterlife. in the main religions of the world, we can see violent messages against homosexuality, contraception, immigration, foreign nations, and societally incorporated religious beliefs. the last one, in other words, means that religious people are trying to make their dark-age beliefs the national standard. this opposes any and all democratic ideals--people's right to chose their beliefs--as does raising children religiously. doing this deprives them, from the moment they first suck oxygen, of their right to chose.
going back to my gun analogy, when we teach a child religious morals, we are teaching them to hone in with deadly accuracy on enemies of their church. many children like this will grow up adamant in their beliefs, constantly opposing any ideas which fall outside of their religious considerations. because of conditioning, this will be done without any emperical thought. these children will become young adults who can finally vote, and they will vote and work in mass numbers to create bodies politic working to impose on a national level their ideas of What Is Right which were imposed on them at early, helpless ages. Wars will be fought in the name of these supposed morals. Rights will be stripped of those who are contrary to those morals. People will suffer. By raising a child religiously, many times, you are training them to be killers. The only difference between that and them actually pulling a trigger is that their killings will be shrouded by a language of supposed liberty.
The vast majority of religious people? Where did you get this information? This is not true. You are referring to those religious people who 'practice' religion but do not follow the true teachings of their religion. Surely, there are those whose religion does excuse murdering and what not. However, true religious people - and I would know this; do not hold views contrary to peace - societal progression yes to a certain extent, but that is how it always was. Now, this is not to say that the society should not progress at all.
...would you teach a young child to shoot a gun with deadly accuracy? That isn’t the same thing. The child grows up to be a man who can fully understand whether that which they have been taught is true or false. It is up to them to act according to how they have been raised but also to what they have constructed on their own through those teachings and through the life outside of those teachings.
We all have a right to believe what we want. What is wrong with that? That is just one point of view. Of course you see those messages. I don’t deny any of them because it is true that they exist. Does that mean that I will act violently towards those who do not follow my religion? No because as much as I have been raised to believe in those teachings, I have not been raised to do them any wrong based on our differences.
How is a child just born able to choose anything? Should they choose who their parents should be too? This is impossible. What are democratic ideals? Do they even exist? Everyone seems to have their own idea of democracy, that doesn’t make it right. And it doesn’t deprive them of anything since once they are fully grown they will know how to act based on their own views, which can be the influence of many factors not just religion.
That isn’t true. I wasn’t taught to hone in with deadly accuracy on enemies of my church. I believe everything which I have been taught but I don’t believe to have a right to do wrong to those who do not believe in them. They will oppose many ideas which fall outside of their religious considerations because they want to. You are so wrong in saying that ...by raising a child religiously, many times, you are training them to be killers.
You are not basing your perspective based on pure fact, but also on limited knowledge of religion and truly religious people. Different religions and people take different approaches, not all of them are the same, as you have pointed them out to be.
Again, not true. Society has progressed, and with democratic rights which followed things have changed. Having said that, the true teachings of religion still exist with conformity to the rest of the society.
Don't take eveything that is said in the Bible literally. The old and the new testament are ascribed to two different eras. Hence, there is nothing wrong with following the true teachings of religion.
So maybe we need a Brand New Testament that makes it okay for gays to marry, women to make decisions regarding their own bodies, war to stop being launched in the name of god, immigration to be tolerated and even welcomed, and of course....children to be raised with agency. Congratulations Marisol, we've arrived.
the religious non-violence which you pointed out is often exponged by the hand of law, which i discussed in my original response to you.
creating laws against ALL types of societal progression is no better nor worse than straight up violence.
as for the "lack of evidence"...im an anthropologist trained in qualitative and quantitative ethnographic methodology. i do not have time to publish a full study on here. i have spent quite some time researching and observing the demographic in this question through firsthand experience, public inquiry, and where I could not learn directly, through endless media pieces. i don't spout what i don't know.
I don't spout what I don't know either. I know exactly what I am saying. Not all religions have the same teachings; same things cannot describe a whole population of people. Your view of religion is too generalised. Not every 'fact' is a true fact.
I think Dad here just about said it right. Society will only progress with science and technology, not religion. However, society would definitely benefit from having religion gone altogether.
I think that there is such a thing as a soul, and that we are conditioned away from it the minute our sensory inputs are jammed with the noise, sights, sounds, smells and gadgets of earth.
i think collective soul is important, even crucial, for survival. if you want to know why, just ask :)
that said, i do not think soul has any thing to do with proselytizing religions such as Islam, Christianity, Judaism, etc.
Religion?
So you are speaking of Islamic terrorism as well?
I dearly hope so, because for some (valid fearful) reason, when people speak of 'religion' they forget about that atrocities that have happened in the name of their belief in 'God'.
When they asked terrorists why they would want to kill so many innocent people, the answer was because they love Allah, and couldn't wait to get their virgins etc after death. (in the case of failed suicide bombers)
If these teachings of 'religion' were instilled by their own parents (of which they ARE) is that ok? I mean its all in the name of their good religious beliefs!
Religion IS bad, not just for extremists (ie fanatical religious believers). Because it removes responsibility even guilt (you may call sin) And misplaces it with judgement and unfounded fears.
A common example is when you hear of PARENTS who allow their children to die because they didn't use modern medicine or medical practices.
Or a child is told not to associate with an atheist, although the other way around, the child atheist has no concerns for being friends with the religious believer (except hoping the silly believer actually wakes up one day)
There are trillions of horror examples I could provide, all stemmed from a parent who has allowed a child to follow the holly book belief system. Do note, no 'God' recited the entire bible to a man (or men rather) to write down. Unless you think some crazy man heard voices without anyone being there for months possibly years. I mean you do understand this is a known mental condition. God did not write the Bible (or Qur'an) because 1. Men wrote it, we already know that. 2. There is no god, since 'religious' people have never provided ANY fact or anything, not even one prayer answered EVER!
To say that "there is nothing wrong with following the true teachings of religion" is obviously incorrect. Christians DO bad things, some hate homosexuals (note this is now accepted by your 'society' you mentioned) Some kill or die in the name of their nonsense religion. The list goes on and on, Sexual abuse of minors! Islamic girl genital mutilation! Christian signs everywhere telling children they might go to hell? I mean I could write pages and pages, its nearly never ending.
IF you are referencing those 'Christians' (only) who are not so fanatical (ie don't follow the bible properly) Then as long as they don't impose any of their unfounded beliefs onto me or others (including their own children) then let them live in fairy tale land, it THEIR life they want to waste. But its NOT their right to waste their children's life.
I've always said keep religion away from children, once they have studied science and evolution (in school) and finally turn 18 or 21, THEN throw them a bible. I'm positive they'll get a good laugh out of it (I note some still revert to unfounded belief as adults, but at least the children are safe).
I think it was Richard Dawkins who once said that crimes committed in the name of religion, should be charged twice. Once for the crime, and another for belief in this absurdity that is against our own 'society' modern understandings.
I am talking about my religion, the one that has a Bible. We certainly do not and have not done atrocities in the name of God.
That is their view. I don’t support killing innocent people as I have been brought up in a religion which has nothing to do with violence.
You are talking about Islam, and I am not. There are more religions on this planet and you are basing your thoughts about the rest based on the teachings of one.
They were instilled by their own parents and what they do is wholly up to them. I don’t support such doings but it is not like I can stop such things from happening.
They are not unfounded fears. They are fears which are there for a reason, of course for those who understand. Why should the religious child be a friend with an atheist when the atheist kid wishes such things for their so called friend? This is a two way street.
Men did write the Bible. Facts are there for everyone who has at least a little bit of love left in their hearts. ‘...not even one prayer answered EVER?’ Really? God has answered my prayers and prayers of many.
Christians do bad things. I am aware of that. I am sure that we all know that we have (not just Christians) done bad things. Towards becoming a more religious person one does bad things, and fights for betterment of his or her soul by overcoming all the hurdles that come their way.
Taking the Bible non-literally does not make you any less of a Christian. It is none of your business what parents teach their own children. What is wrong with living in fairy tale land? It is not a waste of life :) they are bringing up their kids the way they should be – teaching them everything that is good and the way it was intended to be by God
Yeah, let them study what you want them to study. How surprising. What is there to laugh about in the Bible?
IIN to think that parents raising their children religiously should...
← View full post
Parents have a right to raise their children any way they like. If they want to teach them religion, they should.
You are blowing things way out of proportion. You want parents who teach their children religion to be illegal. That is very ridiculous. There are worse things which should be disallowed, and such parents are not one of those things.
By suggesting this you are dividing the two types of parents in this case - those who teach their children religion and those who do not. One is surely not better than the other. However, just because you see this as wrong, does not mean that to most people it is. Surely, you will be supported by many people, but to what good?
Parents who teach children religion will not teach them any wrong, but what they are taught will be different to how you view the world and live your life. When children grow up they will be adults who will know enough of the world and their place in it to form their own religious or non-religious views.
What wrong does a religious person do by living an honest and clean life? Nothing. Why should it matter to you when noone is being hurt?
As right as it feels in your heart to think and to say this, what they do also feels right in their heart.
--
Lynxikat
11 years ago
|
pl
Comment Hidden (
show
)
Report
0
0
-
uPSIDEOFDOWn
11 years ago
|
pl
Comment Hidden (
show
)
Report
0
0
This.
Yes, I am dividing parents into two groups: those who teach their children religion, and those who do not.
when i do this, i am carefully considering global harmony.
religion is much more detrimental than helpful. the vast majority of religious people hold views contrary to peace and societal progression. this tragedy can be seen worldwide. if you want me to be specific, believe me--I can. just ask :)
would you teach a young child to shoot a gun with deadly accuracy? by teaching religion, you are doing, in essence, the same thing. religion, being moral in nature, ascribes to practicioners certain virtues that will supposedly lead to a holy earth life and a blissful afterlife. in the main religions of the world, we can see violent messages against homosexuality, contraception, immigration, foreign nations, and societally incorporated religious beliefs. the last one, in other words, means that religious people are trying to make their dark-age beliefs the national standard. this opposes any and all democratic ideals--people's right to chose their beliefs--as does raising children religiously. doing this deprives them, from the moment they first suck oxygen, of their right to chose.
going back to my gun analogy, when we teach a child religious morals, we are teaching them to hone in with deadly accuracy on enemies of their church. many children like this will grow up adamant in their beliefs, constantly opposing any ideas which fall outside of their religious considerations. because of conditioning, this will be done without any emperical thought. these children will become young adults who can finally vote, and they will vote and work in mass numbers to create bodies politic working to impose on a national level their ideas of What Is Right which were imposed on them at early, helpless ages. Wars will be fought in the name of these supposed morals. Rights will be stripped of those who are contrary to those morals. People will suffer. By raising a child religiously, many times, you are training them to be killers. The only difference between that and them actually pulling a trigger is that their killings will be shrouded by a language of supposed liberty.
--
Marisol
11 years ago
|
pl
Comment Hidden (
show
)
Report
0
0
-
iEatZombies_
11 years ago
|
pl
Comment Hidden (
show
)
Report
0
0
The vast majority of religious people? Where did you get this information? This is not true. You are referring to those religious people who 'practice' religion but do not follow the true teachings of their religion. Surely, there are those whose religion does excuse murdering and what not. However, true religious people - and I would know this; do not hold views contrary to peace - societal progression yes to a certain extent, but that is how it always was. Now, this is not to say that the society should not progress at all.
...would you teach a young child to shoot a gun with deadly accuracy? That isn’t the same thing. The child grows up to be a man who can fully understand whether that which they have been taught is true or false. It is up to them to act according to how they have been raised but also to what they have constructed on their own through those teachings and through the life outside of those teachings.
We all have a right to believe what we want. What is wrong with that? That is just one point of view. Of course you see those messages. I don’t deny any of them because it is true that they exist. Does that mean that I will act violently towards those who do not follow my religion? No because as much as I have been raised to believe in those teachings, I have not been raised to do them any wrong based on our differences.
How is a child just born able to choose anything? Should they choose who their parents should be too? This is impossible. What are democratic ideals? Do they even exist? Everyone seems to have their own idea of democracy, that doesn’t make it right. And it doesn’t deprive them of anything since once they are fully grown they will know how to act based on their own views, which can be the influence of many factors not just religion.
That isn’t true. I wasn’t taught to hone in with deadly accuracy on enemies of my church. I believe everything which I have been taught but I don’t believe to have a right to do wrong to those who do not believe in them. They will oppose many ideas which fall outside of their religious considerations because they want to. You are so wrong in saying that ...by raising a child religiously, many times, you are training them to be killers.
You are not basing your perspective based on pure fact, but also on limited knowledge of religion and truly religious people. Different religions and people take different approaches, not all of them are the same, as you have pointed them out to be.
--
Velancious
11 years ago
|
pl
Comment Hidden (
show
)
Report
2
2
If we all followed the 'true teachings of religion', we'd basically have to kill 95% of the U.S. Child disobeys parent? Stone the child to death.
Don't like it? Well, sorry, that's what the Bible tells people how to deal with an unruly child.
--
Marisol
11 years ago
|
pl
Comment Hidden (
show
)
Report
-1
-1
Again, not true. Society has progressed, and with democratic rights which followed things have changed. Having said that, the true teachings of religion still exist with conformity to the rest of the society.
Don't take eveything that is said in the Bible literally. The old and the new testament are ascribed to two different eras. Hence, there is nothing wrong with following the true teachings of religion.
--
uPSIDEOFDOWn
11 years ago
|
pl
Comment Hidden (
show
)
Report
0
0
-
uPSIDEOFDOWn
11 years ago
|
pl
Comment Hidden (
show
)
Report
0
0
-
Velancious
11 years ago
|
pl
Comment Hidden (
show
)
Report
0
0
-
Dad
11 years ago
|
pl
Comment Hidden (
show
)
Report
0
0
So maybe we need a Brand New Testament that makes it okay for gays to marry, women to make decisions regarding their own bodies, war to stop being launched in the name of god, immigration to be tolerated and even welcomed, and of course....children to be raised with agency. Congratulations Marisol, we've arrived.
--
Marisol
11 years ago
|
pl
Comment Hidden (
show
)
Report
0
0
That would be pointless as you don’t accept the Bible. You have got it all wrong.
the religious non-violence which you pointed out is often exponged by the hand of law, which i discussed in my original response to you.
creating laws against ALL types of societal progression is no better nor worse than straight up violence.
as for the "lack of evidence"...im an anthropologist trained in qualitative and quantitative ethnographic methodology. i do not have time to publish a full study on here. i have spent quite some time researching and observing the demographic in this question through firsthand experience, public inquiry, and where I could not learn directly, through endless media pieces. i don't spout what i don't know.
--
Marisol
11 years ago
|
pl
Comment Hidden (
show
)
Report
0
0
See More Comments =>
I don't spout what I don't know either. I know exactly what I am saying. Not all religions have the same teachings; same things cannot describe a whole population of people. Your view of religion is too generalised. Not every 'fact' is a true fact.
I think Dad here just about said it right. Society will only progress with science and technology, not religion. However, society would definitely benefit from having religion gone altogether.
--
Marisol
11 years ago
|
pl
Comment Hidden (
show
)
Report
0
0
See More Comments =>
-
uPSIDEOFDOWn
11 years ago
|
pl
Comment Hidden (
show
)
Report
0
0
See More Comments =>
It will only 'progress' towards destruction if that happens.
I think that there is such a thing as a soul, and that we are conditioned away from it the minute our sensory inputs are jammed with the noise, sights, sounds, smells and gadgets of earth.
i think collective soul is important, even crucial, for survival. if you want to know why, just ask :)
that said, i do not think soul has any thing to do with proselytizing religions such as Islam, Christianity, Judaism, etc.
Religion?
So you are speaking of Islamic terrorism as well?
I dearly hope so, because for some (valid fearful) reason, when people speak of 'religion' they forget about that atrocities that have happened in the name of their belief in 'God'.
When they asked terrorists why they would want to kill so many innocent people, the answer was because they love Allah, and couldn't wait to get their virgins etc after death. (in the case of failed suicide bombers)
If these teachings of 'religion' were instilled by their own parents (of which they ARE) is that ok? I mean its all in the name of their good religious beliefs!
Religion IS bad, not just for extremists (ie fanatical religious believers). Because it removes responsibility even guilt (you may call sin) And misplaces it with judgement and unfounded fears.
A common example is when you hear of PARENTS who allow their children to die because they didn't use modern medicine or medical practices.
Or a child is told not to associate with an atheist, although the other way around, the child atheist has no concerns for being friends with the religious believer (except hoping the silly believer actually wakes up one day)
There are trillions of horror examples I could provide, all stemmed from a parent who has allowed a child to follow the holly book belief system. Do note, no 'God' recited the entire bible to a man (or men rather) to write down. Unless you think some crazy man heard voices without anyone being there for months possibly years. I mean you do understand this is a known mental condition. God did not write the Bible (or Qur'an) because 1. Men wrote it, we already know that. 2. There is no god, since 'religious' people have never provided ANY fact or anything, not even one prayer answered EVER!
To say that "there is nothing wrong with following the true teachings of religion" is obviously incorrect. Christians DO bad things, some hate homosexuals (note this is now accepted by your 'society' you mentioned) Some kill or die in the name of their nonsense religion. The list goes on and on, Sexual abuse of minors! Islamic girl genital mutilation! Christian signs everywhere telling children they might go to hell? I mean I could write pages and pages, its nearly never ending.
IF you are referencing those 'Christians' (only) who are not so fanatical (ie don't follow the bible properly) Then as long as they don't impose any of their unfounded beliefs onto me or others (including their own children) then let them live in fairy tale land, it THEIR life they want to waste. But its NOT their right to waste their children's life.
I've always said keep religion away from children, once they have studied science and evolution (in school) and finally turn 18 or 21, THEN throw them a bible. I'm positive they'll get a good laugh out of it (I note some still revert to unfounded belief as adults, but at least the children are safe).
I think it was Richard Dawkins who once said that crimes committed in the name of religion, should be charged twice. Once for the crime, and another for belief in this absurdity that is against our own 'society' modern understandings.
--
Marisol
11 years ago
|
pl
Comment Hidden (
show
)
Report
0
0
See More Comments =>
I am talking about my religion, the one that has a Bible. We certainly do not and have not done atrocities in the name of God.
That is their view. I don’t support killing innocent people as I have been brought up in a religion which has nothing to do with violence.
You are talking about Islam, and I am not. There are more religions on this planet and you are basing your thoughts about the rest based on the teachings of one.
They were instilled by their own parents and what they do is wholly up to them. I don’t support such doings but it is not like I can stop such things from happening.
They are not unfounded fears. They are fears which are there for a reason, of course for those who understand. Why should the religious child be a friend with an atheist when the atheist kid wishes such things for their so called friend? This is a two way street.
Men did write the Bible. Facts are there for everyone who has at least a little bit of love left in their hearts. ‘...not even one prayer answered EVER?’ Really? God has answered my prayers and prayers of many.
Christians do bad things. I am aware of that. I am sure that we all know that we have (not just Christians) done bad things. Towards becoming a more religious person one does bad things, and fights for betterment of his or her soul by overcoming all the hurdles that come their way.
Taking the Bible non-literally does not make you any less of a Christian. It is none of your business what parents teach their own children. What is wrong with living in fairy tale land? It is not a waste of life :) they are bringing up their kids the way they should be – teaching them everything that is good and the way it was intended to be by God
Yeah, let them study what you want them to study. How surprising. What is there to laugh about in the Bible?
I would teach my child how to shoot a gun at 10, providing other circumstances are adequate.