I don't think secularism leads to a religious vacuum. What's needed is a stronger defense of secularism by people who should be defending it the hardest (the left, politically).
This can still be turned around, but it's going to take honesty about Islam's political component, not more attempts at denying Islam has problems. It is being done, by a growing ex-Muslim movement and secular/liberal Muslims, but they are not being given the platforms and support they need by The Left. If you can promote their narratives more, you can popularise a secularist reform movement among people of Muslim background.
And that is a far better and more peaceful resolution to the issue than voting in some far-Right demagogue, who is just going to turn our once-liberal countries into fascist shitholes long before "Islamification" can happen.
Your argument is very encouraging. But, I am not sure the growing ex-Muslim secular movement has the momentum it needs to pacify the radicals. In a sense, these Islamic radicals are suffering from an identity crisis. The ones that think emotionally and are prone to drama kind of snap.
After a generation of assimilation, Europe will be in better shape. But your idea is none-the-less impressive. If some kind of social engineering can accelerate the propagation of the mind set you are suggesting, we will all be in better shape.
Work on the details for this. I'm expecting good things from you.
Well, my answer to that is to just remember how Christianity used to be - basically the same. We went through (unfortunately) centuries of barbaric violence, blasphemy laws, and what could be described as "terror" before we got to where we are today.
I almost view it as it being Islam's "turn" now. Like Christianity, it has to go through a de-politicisation and separation from the state in countries where it has state power, before this tribal violence is going to stop. It needs to become merely a personal belief, and one which most followers cherry pick rather than take literally.
It's not really my ideas so there's nothing to "expect" from me. This is something everyone can help though, it's as small as promoting the message of ex-Muslims and reformist practicing ones like Maajid Nawaz more (look for talk of "secularism" and "reform", that's the language these people tend to use). This isn't going to happen overnight, but I genuinely believe it can change. People just have to stop with this learned helplessness attitude to it.
I hear you, but civilization needs a catalyst. Great things have been done by cherry picking concepts from advertising and running test strategies with sample groups.
IIN I hope Islam will die out?
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I don't think secularism leads to a religious vacuum. What's needed is a stronger defense of secularism by people who should be defending it the hardest (the left, politically).
This can still be turned around, but it's going to take honesty about Islam's political component, not more attempts at denying Islam has problems. It is being done, by a growing ex-Muslim movement and secular/liberal Muslims, but they are not being given the platforms and support they need by The Left. If you can promote their narratives more, you can popularise a secularist reform movement among people of Muslim background.
And that is a far better and more peaceful resolution to the issue than voting in some far-Right demagogue, who is just going to turn our once-liberal countries into fascist shitholes long before "Islamification" can happen.
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MissileExpert
6 years ago
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Your argument is very encouraging. But, I am not sure the growing ex-Muslim secular movement has the momentum it needs to pacify the radicals. In a sense, these Islamic radicals are suffering from an identity crisis. The ones that think emotionally and are prone to drama kind of snap.
After a generation of assimilation, Europe will be in better shape. But your idea is none-the-less impressive. If some kind of social engineering can accelerate the propagation of the mind set you are suggesting, we will all be in better shape.
Work on the details for this. I'm expecting good things from you.
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_Mehhhh_
6 years ago
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Well, my answer to that is to just remember how Christianity used to be - basically the same. We went through (unfortunately) centuries of barbaric violence, blasphemy laws, and what could be described as "terror" before we got to where we are today.
I almost view it as it being Islam's "turn" now. Like Christianity, it has to go through a de-politicisation and separation from the state in countries where it has state power, before this tribal violence is going to stop. It needs to become merely a personal belief, and one which most followers cherry pick rather than take literally.
It's not really my ideas so there's nothing to "expect" from me. This is something everyone can help though, it's as small as promoting the message of ex-Muslims and reformist practicing ones like Maajid Nawaz more (look for talk of "secularism" and "reform", that's the language these people tend to use). This isn't going to happen overnight, but I genuinely believe it can change. People just have to stop with this learned helplessness attitude to it.
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MissileExpert
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I hear you, but civilization needs a catalyst. Great things have been done by cherry picking concepts from advertising and running test strategies with sample groups.