I have to math nerd out a bit. We use base-10, meaning 10 symbols for numbers and when we run out we add a digit and start over.
Imagine we used base-12 (a system nearly all mathematicians feel would have been vastly superior). The symbols could have been as follows:
0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, A, B
We don't usually see A and B but one of the symbols doesn't show up on some phones so I'll use them.
A would be what we think of as 10.
B would be what we think of as 11.
In base-12 what we think of as 12 would be written as 10, because the first digit's place now represents blocks of what we think of as 12 instead of what we think of as 10 and there's no need to add another digit until then. Therefore what we think of as 24 would be be written as 20 and what we think of as 36 would be written as 30.
In that world, people wouldn't feel quite like a bonafide adult like they do at 20 until 24. They would then go all the way to 36 before they freaked out about having spent the first "decade" (12-year block rather in this case) of their adult life.
It's a cultural thing. It's literally all about the first digit changing. It's borderline arbitrary and demonstrably silly. There's nothing that makes 30 much different from 29 or 31. It's just a number.
The truth is that you're still very early in your life. Relax.
Yeah I've often wondered how we'd think about ages if we had always used a base 12 system rather than base 10.
For example our number system has the teen numbers from 13-19 because we call 11 and 12 "Eleven" and "Twelve", rather than "Oneteen" and "Twoteen". And the reason 11 and 12 have their own unique names (unlike the rest of the teen numbers) is because we presumably used to have a base 12 system millenia ago, before abandoning it (though those unique names survived). But what if we hadn't abandoned it? Then all of ages 12-24 (in our base 10) would be considered the teen numbers (10-20 in their base 12). Hence we'd view those ages as the rebellious teen years, rather than the ages 13-19 in our Base 10. And then perhaps we'd separate them into two halves to categorise them better? (or into thirds or quarters since the base 12 system would allow that).
Anyway the point is it's funny how we categorise our entire lives to fit a number system that is completely arbitrary (we could've just as easily adopted the base 8, 12 or 16) and this affects not only our own entire outlook on life, but that of all society.
I'm not entirely sure it was actually used and abandoned but all the Germanic languages, including English, definitely came up with words that meant "ten and one left over" and "ten and two left over" for _some_ reason. That said, base-12 is used in some languages even today.
I actually independently came up with the idea for a duodecimal system when I was bored as a kid. I was fascinated by the fact that 12 had 6 factors, a whopping half of its overall value! That was so crazy to me and then it hit me. My reasoning was that at the expense of learning a mere two extra characters, even average people who were used to the system, even if not big on mathematics, would be able to easily mentally divide benchmark quantities into halves, thirds, quarters, and sixths instead of just halves! I mean basically anyone knows half of 40 is 20 borderline instantaneously. A duodecimal would allow average people (raised on the system) to be able to do so much more with ease when dealing with benchmark numbers. I also love, love, loved that it eliminated so many non-terminating decimals (well, duodecimals), rendering fractional computation so much simpler, whereas in base-10 we encounter the problem almost immediately; 1/3 is 0.3 with a repeating 3! A fucking third. ASAP. That's really messy stuff.
Later in life I discovered this was a thing and that virtually all mathematicians felt this way as 12 is a relatively low "superior highly composite number". It seems the only reason people so often gravitated towards 10 was ease of teaching people to count on their fingers.
But people could almost as easily learn to count using their thumb to touch each of the 12 phalanges (finger joints) of their standard fingers and with just one hand at that.
And yes it's of course fascinating pondering the other ways in which it would have affected society. I think it cleans things up a lot regarding the mentalies of the first three blocks of life for sure, but that fixating on life in blocks is a silly idea either way.
Yeah I haven't really researched it much tbh, but I'm sure I've heard before that it was at least a theory that there was an ancient base 12. It does seem like an obvious explanation for the names of 11 and 12, but then I guess that's not good enough evidence.
Wow that's impressive that you figured out the duodecimal system and its benefits when you were a kid, I only read about it much later. It is so fundamental a subject, to think about different ways to count, that most people wouldn't even consider there could be any better way to count than our base 10, hence the obscurity of the vastly superior duodecimal system (this is also probably why the Roman numerals stuck around so long, no one questioned them).
Yeah it would make maths so much easier alright. I did actually realise myself that thing about the third's infinitely repeating 3, without just reading it. Like, a quarter in the base 10 is bad, but it's not completely awful. Yeah a quarter of ten isn't a whole number (2.5), but at least a quarter of 100 and of 1,000 is (25 and 250). But no matter what power of 10 you use, a third of it will never be a whole number because of the infinitely repeating 3.
One everyday real-life example where this really sucks is for anniversaries. The important anniversaries are usually fractions of 100 or 1,000 years. A half of 100 years and 1,000 years is 50 and 500, so the 50th and 500th anniversaries are a big deal. A quarter of 100/1,000 is 25/250, so the 25th and 250th anniversaries are important too. But we skipped the third, which by rights should be a much bigger deal than the quarter anniversary. But because of our sucky base 10, we can't have the big third anniversary because it would never equal a whole number of years. It'd be the 33.333...th or 333.333...th anniversary! Lol, it is a bit nerdy alright to get worked up over it, but I do love thinking about things like this, it is indeed fascinating.
Yeah I think learning this could really help people demystify the importance they place on certain numbers. Some people really do let them control their lives. I mean obviously there's a difference between things like young and middle-aged, but you really can't put any specific number on it.
IIN feeling depressed about recently hitting 30?
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It's just because it's a benchmark.
I have to math nerd out a bit. We use base-10, meaning 10 symbols for numbers and when we run out we add a digit and start over.
Imagine we used base-12 (a system nearly all mathematicians feel would have been vastly superior). The symbols could have been as follows:
0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, A, B
We don't usually see A and B but one of the symbols doesn't show up on some phones so I'll use them.
A would be what we think of as 10.
B would be what we think of as 11.
In base-12 what we think of as 12 would be written as 10, because the first digit's place now represents blocks of what we think of as 12 instead of what we think of as 10 and there's no need to add another digit until then. Therefore what we think of as 24 would be be written as 20 and what we think of as 36 would be written as 30.
In that world, people wouldn't feel quite like a bonafide adult like they do at 20 until 24. They would then go all the way to 36 before they freaked out about having spent the first "decade" (12-year block rather in this case) of their adult life.
It's a cultural thing. It's literally all about the first digit changing. It's borderline arbitrary and demonstrably silly. There's nothing that makes 30 much different from 29 or 31. It's just a number.
The truth is that you're still very early in your life. Relax.
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JellyBeanBandit
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Yeah I've often wondered how we'd think about ages if we had always used a base 12 system rather than base 10.
For example our number system has the teen numbers from 13-19 because we call 11 and 12 "Eleven" and "Twelve", rather than "Oneteen" and "Twoteen". And the reason 11 and 12 have their own unique names (unlike the rest of the teen numbers) is because we presumably used to have a base 12 system millenia ago, before abandoning it (though those unique names survived). But what if we hadn't abandoned it? Then all of ages 12-24 (in our base 10) would be considered the teen numbers (10-20 in their base 12). Hence we'd view those ages as the rebellious teen years, rather than the ages 13-19 in our Base 10. And then perhaps we'd separate them into two halves to categorise them better? (or into thirds or quarters since the base 12 system would allow that).
Anyway the point is it's funny how we categorise our entire lives to fit a number system that is completely arbitrary (we could've just as easily adopted the base 8, 12 or 16) and this affects not only our own entire outlook on life, but that of all society.
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S0UNDS_WEIRD
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I'm not entirely sure it was actually used and abandoned but all the Germanic languages, including English, definitely came up with words that meant "ten and one left over" and "ten and two left over" for _some_ reason. That said, base-12 is used in some languages even today.
I actually independently came up with the idea for a duodecimal system when I was bored as a kid. I was fascinated by the fact that 12 had 6 factors, a whopping half of its overall value! That was so crazy to me and then it hit me. My reasoning was that at the expense of learning a mere two extra characters, even average people who were used to the system, even if not big on mathematics, would be able to easily mentally divide benchmark quantities into halves, thirds, quarters, and sixths instead of just halves! I mean basically anyone knows half of 40 is 20 borderline instantaneously. A duodecimal would allow average people (raised on the system) to be able to do so much more with ease when dealing with benchmark numbers. I also love, love, loved that it eliminated so many non-terminating decimals (well, duodecimals), rendering fractional computation so much simpler, whereas in base-10 we encounter the problem almost immediately; 1/3 is 0.3 with a repeating 3! A fucking third. ASAP. That's really messy stuff.
Later in life I discovered this was a thing and that virtually all mathematicians felt this way as 12 is a relatively low "superior highly composite number". It seems the only reason people so often gravitated towards 10 was ease of teaching people to count on their fingers.
But people could almost as easily learn to count using their thumb to touch each of the 12 phalanges (finger joints) of their standard fingers and with just one hand at that.
And yes it's of course fascinating pondering the other ways in which it would have affected society. I think it cleans things up a lot regarding the mentalies of the first three blocks of life for sure, but that fixating on life in blocks is a silly idea either way.
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JellyBeanBandit
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Yeah I haven't really researched it much tbh, but I'm sure I've heard before that it was at least a theory that there was an ancient base 12. It does seem like an obvious explanation for the names of 11 and 12, but then I guess that's not good enough evidence.
Wow that's impressive that you figured out the duodecimal system and its benefits when you were a kid, I only read about it much later. It is so fundamental a subject, to think about different ways to count, that most people wouldn't even consider there could be any better way to count than our base 10, hence the obscurity of the vastly superior duodecimal system (this is also probably why the Roman numerals stuck around so long, no one questioned them).
Yeah it would make maths so much easier alright. I did actually realise myself that thing about the third's infinitely repeating 3, without just reading it. Like, a quarter in the base 10 is bad, but it's not completely awful. Yeah a quarter of ten isn't a whole number (2.5), but at least a quarter of 100 and of 1,000 is (25 and 250). But no matter what power of 10 you use, a third of it will never be a whole number because of the infinitely repeating 3.
One everyday real-life example where this really sucks is for anniversaries. The important anniversaries are usually fractions of 100 or 1,000 years. A half of 100 years and 1,000 years is 50 and 500, so the 50th and 500th anniversaries are a big deal. A quarter of 100/1,000 is 25/250, so the 25th and 250th anniversaries are important too. But we skipped the third, which by rights should be a much bigger deal than the quarter anniversary. But because of our sucky base 10, we can't have the big third anniversary because it would never equal a whole number of years. It'd be the 33.333...th or 333.333...th anniversary! Lol, it is a bit nerdy alright to get worked up over it, but I do love thinking about things like this, it is indeed fascinating.
Yeah I think learning this could really help people demystify the importance they place on certain numbers. Some people really do let them control their lives. I mean obviously there's a difference between things like young and middle-aged, but you really can't put any specific number on it.