I'm fairly certain I've read posts of yours that indicate you are a religious person (Mormon?).
Does your positive answer to this question mean you do not have total faith in your religion? To me, that's what I read of it.
I posed this question out of many related curiosities, faith being one of them, so that is why I am curious as to why you answered 'yes'.
I'd be VERY grateful if you explained! As a person who has never held a faith, nor even gave a second thought to a God or creation, I do not understand, so any expansion you can do on your answer-and my follow-up question-would be so appreciated! Don't take this as a back-and-forth debate invitation, I couldn't care less to debate with you over this, I am simply trying to understand better and you seem like the perfect person to help with that in this 'faith' regard.
Bear in mind, my opinion should not be taken as any sort of representation of the entirety of religious people. We come together for the church and the common beliefs of God, Jesus etc. and many of their faiths comprise of the common beliefs of the church, but many of us also have our own personal beliefs so when you read this, take that into account.
I don't want to misrepresent a group of people who are constantly misrepresented as a homogeneous group.
Believe me, I am less interested in debate of my spiritual beliefs than you are.
Yes, I am a Mormon. Yes, I have faith that there is a God and that he maintains watch over me and that there is a divine plan for us all. I have faith in the concept of a universal system of morality, that there is right and wrong on a level that is deeper than that which humans can see or construct and I have faith that everything that is now was planned to be by God. I have faith that everything that is now exists beyond a level at which our senses perceive...
They say, in church, that you can no longer have faith once you see God and once you learn the answers from God directly. Even in church, we acknowledge that our faith is not based upon scientific evidence: that is the very definition of faith, believing what you do not see. Being able to believe something based upon pure feeling alone. When you see God, however, you no longer have faith. It can no longer be called faith.
The rest of my belief system is based upon knowledge of what I can see, perceive, know and prove. My feelings won't change the fact that if I jump, I will fall back down. My feelings will not change the fact that the wind blows or that entropy converts useful energy into useless energy. However, my feelings can change whether or not God exists to me and my faith makes the difference between a world devoid of God and entirely constructed by chance, scientific laws and human constructed morals, and a world where there is a God and a level of right and wrong that exists universally.
Part of the challenge of Faith is to learn to live with that. To most believers, it comes instantaneously but for me, knowing that my feelings make the difference in the reality perceived by myself is sometimes... unsettling. My perception of reality is fluid and, unlike billions of believers who have a foundation of reality in their religion, and to an extent, my belief in God is almost solid but everything else? I have a hard time believing that out of all of the well-honed perceptions of the universe and the afterlife, mine would somehow be correct. My wanting it to be will not make it so and while I believe it is... that doesn't mean it is.
Faith is wonderful, but at the same time, it is a burden. If I were given the chance to lose my faith, then I would take it. If it turns out that my faith is wrong, I would rather it be replaced by the CORRECT answer, rather than someone's OPINION (atheist, religious or otherwise) of the correct answer.
You're awesome. I'm not religious, but this is true faith. Many people think faith is to believe without questioning; wrong, that's zealotry. Faith is to continue believing in spite of your questions and doubts.
Do I feel less faithful than those who don't question such matters? Of course, but even many Christians question what they believe. Some of them are more vocal about it, some of them keep it to themselves out of fear that they will be shunned by their fellow Christians.
There are people out there that accept all of these scriptures and truths the way that you would accept your car being rained upon. It's true, it happened, they might has well have seen it with their own eyes.
However, I would say that when it comes to the idea of God being the divine creator and all things being under the providence of God, I would say I am very faithful to that idea. Even if and when I am able to call bullshit on every other religious precept, doctrine and concept, the idea that there is a God and that there is something greater than ourselves still resonates in my mind, regardless of any evolutionary explanation for why I would think like that. It's as real to me as my very own existence.
It's not as if I am unfamiliar with science and with the ideals of atheism and I have probably read more atheist literature than your average atheist, but it all came down to my faith and I could not shake it. Would I? No. Regardless of the right and wrong, it makes the world make more sense to me and my central belief in a deity makes it much easier for me to accept that the universe that we live in may not be as solid and definite as the great thinkers of our time try to make it look.
However, it'd be great to know the truth. We all want to know the truth, the "Theory of Existence". Knowing is necessary for many people, atheist and religious alike. That is just what it is though, theoretical bullshit based on observation. There's no solid proof for or against God, but wherever it leans, I'd like to see it BECAUSE of the way I think.
If you had the chance to know the truth but....
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I'm fairly certain I've read posts of yours that indicate you are a religious person (Mormon?).
Does your positive answer to this question mean you do not have total faith in your religion? To me, that's what I read of it.
I posed this question out of many related curiosities, faith being one of them, so that is why I am curious as to why you answered 'yes'.
I'd be VERY grateful if you explained! As a person who has never held a faith, nor even gave a second thought to a God or creation, I do not understand, so any expansion you can do on your answer-and my follow-up question-would be so appreciated! Don't take this as a back-and-forth debate invitation, I couldn't care less to debate with you over this, I am simply trying to understand better and you seem like the perfect person to help with that in this 'faith' regard.
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NeuroNeptunian
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Bear in mind, my opinion should not be taken as any sort of representation of the entirety of religious people. We come together for the church and the common beliefs of God, Jesus etc. and many of their faiths comprise of the common beliefs of the church, but many of us also have our own personal beliefs so when you read this, take that into account.
I don't want to misrepresent a group of people who are constantly misrepresented as a homogeneous group.
Believe me, I am less interested in debate of my spiritual beliefs than you are.
Yes, I am a Mormon. Yes, I have faith that there is a God and that he maintains watch over me and that there is a divine plan for us all. I have faith in the concept of a universal system of morality, that there is right and wrong on a level that is deeper than that which humans can see or construct and I have faith that everything that is now was planned to be by God. I have faith that everything that is now exists beyond a level at which our senses perceive...
They say, in church, that you can no longer have faith once you see God and once you learn the answers from God directly. Even in church, we acknowledge that our faith is not based upon scientific evidence: that is the very definition of faith, believing what you do not see. Being able to believe something based upon pure feeling alone. When you see God, however, you no longer have faith. It can no longer be called faith.
The rest of my belief system is based upon knowledge of what I can see, perceive, know and prove. My feelings won't change the fact that if I jump, I will fall back down. My feelings will not change the fact that the wind blows or that entropy converts useful energy into useless energy. However, my feelings can change whether or not God exists to me and my faith makes the difference between a world devoid of God and entirely constructed by chance, scientific laws and human constructed morals, and a world where there is a God and a level of right and wrong that exists universally.
Part of the challenge of Faith is to learn to live with that. To most believers, it comes instantaneously but for me, knowing that my feelings make the difference in the reality perceived by myself is sometimes... unsettling. My perception of reality is fluid and, unlike billions of believers who have a foundation of reality in their religion, and to an extent, my belief in God is almost solid but everything else? I have a hard time believing that out of all of the well-honed perceptions of the universe and the afterlife, mine would somehow be correct. My wanting it to be will not make it so and while I believe it is... that doesn't mean it is.
Faith is wonderful, but at the same time, it is a burden. If I were given the chance to lose my faith, then I would take it. If it turns out that my faith is wrong, I would rather it be replaced by the CORRECT answer, rather than someone's OPINION (atheist, religious or otherwise) of the correct answer.
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You're awesome. I'm not religious, but this is true faith. Many people think faith is to believe without questioning; wrong, that's zealotry. Faith is to continue believing in spite of your questions and doubts.
I *think* I understand what you're saying.
It still leaves me wondering, why a person who thinks like you do would commit to a specific faith, and be content (at least on the surface) though.
Do you feel less faithful than those who don't question such matters? Do you ever wish you didn't have a faith?
Forgive me, this is just very interesting!
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Do I feel less faithful than those who don't question such matters? Of course, but even many Christians question what they believe. Some of them are more vocal about it, some of them keep it to themselves out of fear that they will be shunned by their fellow Christians.
There are people out there that accept all of these scriptures and truths the way that you would accept your car being rained upon. It's true, it happened, they might has well have seen it with their own eyes.
However, I would say that when it comes to the idea of God being the divine creator and all things being under the providence of God, I would say I am very faithful to that idea. Even if and when I am able to call bullshit on every other religious precept, doctrine and concept, the idea that there is a God and that there is something greater than ourselves still resonates in my mind, regardless of any evolutionary explanation for why I would think like that. It's as real to me as my very own existence.
It's not as if I am unfamiliar with science and with the ideals of atheism and I have probably read more atheist literature than your average atheist, but it all came down to my faith and I could not shake it. Would I? No. Regardless of the right and wrong, it makes the world make more sense to me and my central belief in a deity makes it much easier for me to accept that the universe that we live in may not be as solid and definite as the great thinkers of our time try to make it look.
However, it'd be great to know the truth. We all want to know the truth, the "Theory of Existence". Knowing is necessary for many people, atheist and religious alike. That is just what it is though, theoretical bullshit based on observation. There's no solid proof for or against God, but wherever it leans, I'd like to see it BECAUSE of the way I think.
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Thanks for your replies! :)