Well, I hope we can agree that the subject isn't that black and white. I'm not suggesting you're going against my beliefs, I just don't see how you can come out with that sweeping statement if you're informed on the matter/s (if you're a decent person.) Women are being treated appallingly in this world. We're a long way from equality (as in all people, everyone, male or female, should be in it together.)
More so on the subject. When people posted "Don't be that girl" posters, to tell women not to falsely accuse men of rape, which is a crime, they were torn down by feminists claiming it was promoting rape...Telling women not to lie about rape is supporting rape to these people.
Another reason would be that when men try to make speeches aimed at boys/men that both men and women are allowed to view, feminists always try to stop the speech, always try to stop freedom of speech because they don't want men to be told of the issues they face, so much so as to push fire alarms to prevent speeches.
They tear down posters that promote the speeches to get people informed of the time and date of it happening.
They constantly target speeches or anything aimed to help men, then claim to be about equality and that they don't hate men, and nobody in the entire movement stands up to tell these feminists what they are doing is wrong, and that if they do this to not consider themselves a feminists due to it targeting freedom of speech.
I think the wording 'that girl' is a bit... accusatory? I don't actually know of the campaign, to be honest, so I can't really comment.
I think maybe you have experience of extreme feminism, rather than feminism in the true sense. Feminism believes in equality, not superiority or misandry. I guess there will always be extremists in any group. And it is unfair to label it 'moronic'. What was more moronic, was the time before feminism, when women weren't even allowed to vote and were bossed around by men. A lot has changed in the last century due to feminism and many men have supported the cause as well as women. It is about equality - that's the true meaning.
No, sorry, I am all for equality, just not under the hat of what feminism claims equality is.
Women are treated appallingly in areas of the world where men also have it rough, such as third world countries.
You hear about the woman that was violently raped and murdered on the news in some third world country, but you never hear about how a man was beaten to death and beheaded in that same country, which gives the public this idea that women are the only targeted victims in the areas because the media is primarily focused on the female victims, giving the idea that they are the only victims of the vast majority.
If you are talking about being treated appallingly in western society, etc, then sorry, they aren't, and give a few examples of what you, as a feminist, thinks women have to deal with that is "appalling" that men don't.
I learned a long time ago that feminism doesn't practice what they preach. They scream about making the genders equal, yet fight to make sure women get the choices of man and woman, with the responsibility of neither, all while saying men should not get the choices women do, all while expected to take responsibility like a man and a woman.
I disagree when you say it's not reported when men are treated badly. It is. Yes, the treatment of women is worse in poorer countries (usually), but they face problems in western societies, just in different ways. Unequal pay, being constantly objectified in the media, obsession with how old women look (e.g. an actress will be scrutinised, an actor, applauded for his performance and talent.) There are very few women in government when compared to the amount of men. Those are examples off the top of my head. If you think the whole objectification thing and having your appearance scrutinised isn't a big deal and women should just be able to brush it off, then I suggest that if you were to be a woman for a month (that probably includes one period, btw... sorry) then you'd see it's harder than you might imagine.
The definition of feminism is - the advocacy of women’s rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes. To me, that's just common sense. Just because sometimes a few feminists skew that meaning and verge on misandry, doesn't render the whole movement a waste of space. But in the true meaning, everyone should be a feminist - i.e. support equal rights.
Can you give an example of what you mean by some feminists fighting to make choices for everyone but not taking the responsibility? And who is saying men shouldn't get the choices women do? Thanks.
No, it really isn't, not by mainstream media. I have no doubt you have never heard on mainstream media, of a man that was beheaded in these areas.
Unequal pay is not an issue. Studies have shown that the disparities between pay is due to individual choices of men and women, such as men more likely to have risky aspects of the job, more likely to go in to higher paying jobs, etc, where as women will not take as much risk and typically go for lesser paying jobs because they comply with her interests more. The pay gap has been explained, it is not due to mindless sexism, it is due to choices men and women make in their lives.
Watch this, it's an interesting video on the topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_sGn6PdmIo&list=FLDcQUoqjuGHLrFfQAbx5PbQ
Women are no more objectified in the media than men, and infact, I would say men are more so objectified.
Look at shows such as "The Vampire Diaries", "Twilight", and so on (I have one more to add, but make a point about that on its own). These are only two I am using, but there are far more, where the male characters are handsome, chizzled, and so on, not only that, they have other traits put to them that females find attractive just for that reason, to bring in the female audience.
Here is one I was talking about: Magic Mike. A movie about a male stripper. That was incredibly mainstream and sexualized men. Can you honestly tell me you have seen a film about female strippers get that mainstream? If so, name some.
A woman may be looked at for how she "looks", but that is not the only thing people consider. What about the male sexuality? That is talked about just as much, if a male actor is homosexual or not, it becomes more important than their actual acting. And yes, men also face the appearance issue. Look at how female react to people like Justin Bieber or anyone else they find attractive. Now compare it to how men react to an attractive female celebrity. You cannot say that mens' appearance are not considered.
There are very few women in power compared to men. Yes, and there are also very more men than women in engineering, in construction, just as there are more women in teaching and social work than men. Does this mean it is due to sexism? No, it could very well be due to the choices women and men make, and how the career in government my be more appealing to men than women, so more men will be applying than women, so there will be a more likely chance men will be picked, because there are more men going for that position.
What feminism says it is and what is does are completely different. If feminism was about gender equality, they would target these "false feminists", as you imply, and target them for sexism, because these people that target babies for being male (the royal baby), tear down male victim awareness posters, and protest freedom of speech when men are talking about what men face, but they don't, yet they target people that say "one" woman is a slut for her actions, not her gender.
Does that make sense? You can't have a group that sees all that happening, which is inequality against men, yet do nothing, then see something small happening to one woman, then make a huge deal about it, then try say your group is about eqiality.
If your group was about equality, your group would target these so called feminists and say that what they are doing is wrong, you would be going against them and trying to help men be able to have freedom of speech, help male victim awareness posters not get torn down, and bring up how an innocent child was a target to these feminists. However, they don't. So don't complain to everyone that the group is about equality when your group does nothing to support equality by going against these people you claim to be against that are pretending to be feminists, yet will go against males doing far less things to women.
You can say you are for equality all you want, however nobody will believe it until its shown by going against these people bringing inequality towards males. I haven't seen or expect to see feminists doing this in the future at all. Until they do, I, nor anyone else, will accept this image of seeking equality from feminists.
Yes. An example is financial abortion. Women want what men can do (which is fair), all while not giving them the rights women have, such as abortion. Now, financial abortion does "nothing" to stop the females choice. She can keep the child, abort it, put it up for adoption, or whatever. All financial abortion does is give the man the choice on if he will be with the child, pay for the child, or do none of that (just like women get that choice by aborting). This would be done at a time where a woman can still have an abortion, so she can make her choice based on what the fathers choice is. If she wants to have the child while the man wants nothing to do with it, then the child is her full responsibility, he has no obligations.
This would make men have just as much reproductive choice as women, all while not taking "any" choice away from women, and yet feminists still protest the idea.
P.s, if you think that using the thumb feature to be anonymous and give the impression I am wrong simply due to how many dislikes you give, then don't parade as being rational.
Only fools hide behinds such tactics when they are incapable of actually defending their point.
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Ofcourse, because going against your beliefs means I am "not informed". Typical feminist - the reason why I left feminism.
I'll tell you what, you go ahead and bring up a few feminist arguments on subjects. Let me inform you of feminism's stupidity.
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flowergirl87
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Well, I hope we can agree that the subject isn't that black and white. I'm not suggesting you're going against my beliefs, I just don't see how you can come out with that sweeping statement if you're informed on the matter/s (if you're a decent person.) Women are being treated appallingly in this world. We're a long way from equality (as in all people, everyone, male or female, should be in it together.)
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More so on the subject. When people posted "Don't be that girl" posters, to tell women not to falsely accuse men of rape, which is a crime, they were torn down by feminists claiming it was promoting rape...Telling women not to lie about rape is supporting rape to these people.
Another reason would be that when men try to make speeches aimed at boys/men that both men and women are allowed to view, feminists always try to stop the speech, always try to stop freedom of speech because they don't want men to be told of the issues they face, so much so as to push fire alarms to prevent speeches.
They tear down posters that promote the speeches to get people informed of the time and date of it happening.
They constantly target speeches or anything aimed to help men, then claim to be about equality and that they don't hate men, and nobody in the entire movement stands up to tell these feminists what they are doing is wrong, and that if they do this to not consider themselves a feminists due to it targeting freedom of speech.
So again, feminism is just moronic.
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I think the wording 'that girl' is a bit... accusatory? I don't actually know of the campaign, to be honest, so I can't really comment.
I think maybe you have experience of extreme feminism, rather than feminism in the true sense. Feminism believes in equality, not superiority or misandry. I guess there will always be extremists in any group. And it is unfair to label it 'moronic'. What was more moronic, was the time before feminism, when women weren't even allowed to vote and were bossed around by men. A lot has changed in the last century due to feminism and many men have supported the cause as well as women. It is about equality - that's the true meaning.
No, sorry, I am all for equality, just not under the hat of what feminism claims equality is.
Women are treated appallingly in areas of the world where men also have it rough, such as third world countries.
You hear about the woman that was violently raped and murdered on the news in some third world country, but you never hear about how a man was beaten to death and beheaded in that same country, which gives the public this idea that women are the only targeted victims in the areas because the media is primarily focused on the female victims, giving the idea that they are the only victims of the vast majority.
If you are talking about being treated appallingly in western society, etc, then sorry, they aren't, and give a few examples of what you, as a feminist, thinks women have to deal with that is "appalling" that men don't.
I learned a long time ago that feminism doesn't practice what they preach. They scream about making the genders equal, yet fight to make sure women get the choices of man and woman, with the responsibility of neither, all while saying men should not get the choices women do, all while expected to take responsibility like a man and a woman.
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I disagree when you say it's not reported when men are treated badly. It is. Yes, the treatment of women is worse in poorer countries (usually), but they face problems in western societies, just in different ways. Unequal pay, being constantly objectified in the media, obsession with how old women look (e.g. an actress will be scrutinised, an actor, applauded for his performance and talent.) There are very few women in government when compared to the amount of men. Those are examples off the top of my head. If you think the whole objectification thing and having your appearance scrutinised isn't a big deal and women should just be able to brush it off, then I suggest that if you were to be a woman for a month (that probably includes one period, btw... sorry) then you'd see it's harder than you might imagine.
The definition of feminism is - the advocacy of women’s rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes. To me, that's just common sense. Just because sometimes a few feminists skew that meaning and verge on misandry, doesn't render the whole movement a waste of space. But in the true meaning, everyone should be a feminist - i.e. support equal rights.
Can you give an example of what you mean by some feminists fighting to make choices for everyone but not taking the responsibility? And who is saying men shouldn't get the choices women do? Thanks.
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No, it really isn't, not by mainstream media. I have no doubt you have never heard on mainstream media, of a man that was beheaded in these areas.
Unequal pay is not an issue. Studies have shown that the disparities between pay is due to individual choices of men and women, such as men more likely to have risky aspects of the job, more likely to go in to higher paying jobs, etc, where as women will not take as much risk and typically go for lesser paying jobs because they comply with her interests more. The pay gap has been explained, it is not due to mindless sexism, it is due to choices men and women make in their lives.
Watch this, it's an interesting video on the topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_sGn6PdmIo&list=FLDcQUoqjuGHLrFfQAbx5PbQ
Women are no more objectified in the media than men, and infact, I would say men are more so objectified.
Look at shows such as "The Vampire Diaries", "Twilight", and so on (I have one more to add, but make a point about that on its own). These are only two I am using, but there are far more, where the male characters are handsome, chizzled, and so on, not only that, they have other traits put to them that females find attractive just for that reason, to bring in the female audience.
Here is one I was talking about: Magic Mike. A movie about a male stripper. That was incredibly mainstream and sexualized men. Can you honestly tell me you have seen a film about female strippers get that mainstream? If so, name some.
A woman may be looked at for how she "looks", but that is not the only thing people consider. What about the male sexuality? That is talked about just as much, if a male actor is homosexual or not, it becomes more important than their actual acting. And yes, men also face the appearance issue. Look at how female react to people like Justin Bieber or anyone else they find attractive. Now compare it to how men react to an attractive female celebrity. You cannot say that mens' appearance are not considered.
There are very few women in power compared to men. Yes, and there are also very more men than women in engineering, in construction, just as there are more women in teaching and social work than men. Does this mean it is due to sexism? No, it could very well be due to the choices women and men make, and how the career in government my be more appealing to men than women, so more men will be applying than women, so there will be a more likely chance men will be picked, because there are more men going for that position.
What feminism says it is and what is does are completely different. If feminism was about gender equality, they would target these "false feminists", as you imply, and target them for sexism, because these people that target babies for being male (the royal baby), tear down male victim awareness posters, and protest freedom of speech when men are talking about what men face, but they don't, yet they target people that say "one" woman is a slut for her actions, not her gender.
Does that make sense? You can't have a group that sees all that happening, which is inequality against men, yet do nothing, then see something small happening to one woman, then make a huge deal about it, then try say your group is about eqiality.
If your group was about equality, your group would target these so called feminists and say that what they are doing is wrong, you would be going against them and trying to help men be able to have freedom of speech, help male victim awareness posters not get torn down, and bring up how an innocent child was a target to these feminists. However, they don't. So don't complain to everyone that the group is about equality when your group does nothing to support equality by going against these people you claim to be against that are pretending to be feminists, yet will go against males doing far less things to women.
You can say you are for equality all you want, however nobody will believe it until its shown by going against these people bringing inequality towards males. I haven't seen or expect to see feminists doing this in the future at all. Until they do, I, nor anyone else, will accept this image of seeking equality from feminists.
Yes. An example is financial abortion. Women want what men can do (which is fair), all while not giving them the rights women have, such as abortion. Now, financial abortion does "nothing" to stop the females choice. She can keep the child, abort it, put it up for adoption, or whatever. All financial abortion does is give the man the choice on if he will be with the child, pay for the child, or do none of that (just like women get that choice by aborting). This would be done at a time where a woman can still have an abortion, so she can make her choice based on what the fathers choice is. If she wants to have the child while the man wants nothing to do with it, then the child is her full responsibility, he has no obligations.
This would make men have just as much reproductive choice as women, all while not taking "any" choice away from women, and yet feminists still protest the idea.
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IntergalacticMarketAnalyst
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That's a helluva rant!
"No, it really isn't, not by mainstream media. I have no doubt you have never heard on mainstream media, of a man that was beheaded in these areas."
Daniel Pearl
"Can you honestly tell me you have seen a film about female strippers get that mainstream? If so, name some."
Burlesque (Cher, Christina Aguilera)
Striptease (Demi Moore)
Flashdance
Dancing At The blue Iguana
Showgirls
Barb Wire
Closer
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Thanks for the response.
P.s, if you think that using the thumb feature to be anonymous and give the impression I am wrong simply due to how many dislikes you give, then don't parade as being rational.
Only fools hide behinds such tactics when they are incapable of actually defending their point.
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flowergirl87
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Firstly, I haven't thumbed any of your comments up or down. I will reply to your comments under the actual comments, not here.