I don't think the world is only misery and I dont deny happiness exists. But pain and suffering tend to be more intense and more long lasting than happiness. Suffering is more intense and more bad than happiness is good.
Most people have to deal with large amounts of discomfort,anxiety,disease physical and emotional pain all over their lives. Most people hate their jobs and have to work their butts off 40 hours a week. We have in exchange for it all, some small and short lived pleasures that are nothing more than satisfaction of a state of discomfort.
The issue is that people have strong optimistic biases that evolved to grant a survival advantage. They use to judge their lives better than it actually is. I believe pessimism is more reflective of the states of affairs.
"Suffering is more intense and more bad than happiness is good.
Most people have to deal with large amounts of discomfort,anxiety,disease physical and emotional pain all over their lives."
Again, an opinion. Sure, the vast majority of people will have to deal with some level of discomfort over the course of their lives, and sure, ultimately we'll all die at some point, but that doesn't make life 100% wretched.
"Most people hate their jobs and have to work their butts off 40 hours a week."
Prove it. There are also people who love their jobs.
"We have in exchange for it all, some small and short lived pleasures that are nothing more than satisfaction of a state of discomfort. "
A bummer of an opinion. It depends on how you value the things you do.
"The issue is that people have strong optimistic biases that evolved to grant a survival advantage. They use to judge their lives better than it actually is. I believe pessimism is more reflective of the states of affairs. "
I can agree with the first sentence there. The second one is an opinionated assertion that assumes there is a "true value" of how good someone's life is. Everyone gets to decide that for themselves. Your last sentence begins with "I believe," meaning that you're expressing a perspective rather than saying anything objective.
It seems like you're convincing yourself that your feeling about the world being bad are objective data, rather than just a worldview. Life can be a downer sometimes, even for optimists. However, an important question to ask yourself is if having a negative outlook on life will improve anything at all. I've thought about this, and I've found the answer to be no, most often. You are at least in partial control of your perceptions.
"Society tells us that if you think negative about life you are sick, so you have to face reality by always pretending to be happy."
I would say that if anything, society teaches us to be cynical because it allows us to be aloof and disinterested. But again, here both of us are making unqualified assertions.
I don't want to go on with this optimism vs pessimism talk.
My point is that when parents decide to have a child in a world that entails a serious possibility for suffering, they are risking to create someone whose life could be nothing but misery, and they are fully aware of this possibility. Parents impose their views that life is good and worth living on their children as they bring them into a world without their consent.
That's what I happen to find immoral and that's why I hate parents, because they don't respect their own offspring's opinions and put their irrational desires above the well-being of their children.
I think the optimism vs pessimism talk is key to this whole thing. Parents sacrifice 18 or more years of their life to give a lifetime's worth of time to another. What life is, then, is key to this whole argument. If you could objectively prove that life is necessarily all misery, hatred and conceit then yes, it would follow that parents are bad people. The issue I'm taking with your argument is that parents are bringing people into a necessarily bad world.
Yes, because raising kids is selfless but having kids is selfish. There is a difference between having kids and raising kids. Now,I believe that parents are bad because they are gambling with the life of an innocent entity for self-gratification and this is the most selfish act imaginable. You could say that the majority of people enjoy being alive, but the point is that parents are risking to create a life of suffering without the consent of that life.
Parents are aware that they could create a miserable child and they still go and procreate. They don't take into consideration the well-being of the child.
I hate people who have children
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I don't think the world is only misery and I dont deny happiness exists. But pain and suffering tend to be more intense and more long lasting than happiness. Suffering is more intense and more bad than happiness is good.
Most people have to deal with large amounts of discomfort,anxiety,disease physical and emotional pain all over their lives. Most people hate their jobs and have to work their butts off 40 hours a week. We have in exchange for it all, some small and short lived pleasures that are nothing more than satisfaction of a state of discomfort.
The issue is that people have strong optimistic biases that evolved to grant a survival advantage. They use to judge their lives better than it actually is. I believe pessimism is more reflective of the states of affairs.
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seakelp
9 years ago
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"Suffering is more intense and more bad than happiness is good.
Most people have to deal with large amounts of discomfort,anxiety,disease physical and emotional pain all over their lives."
Again, an opinion. Sure, the vast majority of people will have to deal with some level of discomfort over the course of their lives, and sure, ultimately we'll all die at some point, but that doesn't make life 100% wretched.
"Most people hate their jobs and have to work their butts off 40 hours a week."
Prove it. There are also people who love their jobs.
"We have in exchange for it all, some small and short lived pleasures that are nothing more than satisfaction of a state of discomfort. "
A bummer of an opinion. It depends on how you value the things you do.
"The issue is that people have strong optimistic biases that evolved to grant a survival advantage. They use to judge their lives better than it actually is. I believe pessimism is more reflective of the states of affairs. "
I can agree with the first sentence there. The second one is an opinionated assertion that assumes there is a "true value" of how good someone's life is. Everyone gets to decide that for themselves. Your last sentence begins with "I believe," meaning that you're expressing a perspective rather than saying anything objective.
It seems like you're convincing yourself that your feeling about the world being bad are objective data, rather than just a worldview. Life can be a downer sometimes, even for optimists. However, an important question to ask yourself is if having a negative outlook on life will improve anything at all. I've thought about this, and I've found the answer to be no, most often. You are at least in partial control of your perceptions.
"Society tells us that if you think negative about life you are sick, so you have to face reality by always pretending to be happy."
I would say that if anything, society teaches us to be cynical because it allows us to be aloof and disinterested. But again, here both of us are making unqualified assertions.
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Siobann
9 years ago
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I don't want to go on with this optimism vs pessimism talk.
My point is that when parents decide to have a child in a world that entails a serious possibility for suffering, they are risking to create someone whose life could be nothing but misery, and they are fully aware of this possibility. Parents impose their views that life is good and worth living on their children as they bring them into a world without their consent.
That's what I happen to find immoral and that's why I hate parents, because they don't respect their own offspring's opinions and put their irrational desires above the well-being of their children.
--
seakelp
9 years ago
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I think the optimism vs pessimism talk is key to this whole thing. Parents sacrifice 18 or more years of their life to give a lifetime's worth of time to another. What life is, then, is key to this whole argument. If you could objectively prove that life is necessarily all misery, hatred and conceit then yes, it would follow that parents are bad people. The issue I'm taking with your argument is that parents are bringing people into a necessarily bad world.
--
Siobann
9 years ago
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Yes, because raising kids is selfless but having kids is selfish. There is a difference between having kids and raising kids. Now,I believe that parents are bad because they are gambling with the life of an innocent entity for self-gratification and this is the most selfish act imaginable. You could say that the majority of people enjoy being alive, but the point is that parents are risking to create a life of suffering without the consent of that life.
Parents are aware that they could create a miserable child and they still go and procreate. They don't take into consideration the well-being of the child.