I don't think women could handle the male experience

As the title states. Thoughts?

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  • I'm an older guy... Yeah... most young guys believe that... and they are so very wrong.

    There are plenty of strong and flexible ladies in the world that literally put most men to shame... if the men were to ever allow themselves to be compared.

    I personally believe based on my experience that more women could handle the male expectations of a being a "man" than men could handle the female expectations of being a "woman."

    I suggest you start learning about the real capabilities and features of Ladies. You will have a far more enjoyable life if you do because you will have more real friends (regardless of your personal sexual preferences). If a man is heterosexual... I challenge you to find out how good it really can be to properly respect and treat a Lady as she should be.

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    • In my perspective they're not wrong. I never said there wasn't strong women, my point is that women would much prefer to not have male societal responsibilities.

      Well, you're clearly wrong on that. Here's some examples:
      - Women would not prefer it if they had to woo men and risk rejection.
      - Women would not prefer the societal standard of paying for the date while the man doesn't.
      - Women would not prefer having men view the average woman as less than average in terms of attractiveness.
      - Women would not prefer taking primary responsibility for providing while the man didn't.
      - Women would not prefer society viewing them being hit by their partner as less serious.
      - Women would not prefer having to propose for marriage.
      - Women would not prefer not being able to opt out of parenthood while men could.
      - Women would not prefer having little to no safety net for domestic violence while men have all of them.
      - Women would not prefer it if men could choose to have a child and force them to pay for the child they didn't want.
      That's just a few but I could keep going. Are you telling me that you think women would prefer things be that way?

      I'm not saying women have zero capabilities or that they can't have a hard life, they obviously can and do. My point is that when it comes to the relations between men and women there is a massive gap between what one must do for the other and that women would not be able to deal with what is expected of men where as on the flip side men would absolutely LOVE to have what women have.

      I'm curious about something as a side point. Do you think women should properly respect and treat a gentleman as he should be?

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      • After reading all of your replies I believe I understand something key about you. I'm rereading a book tonight on how to be successful. Think & Grow Rich, by Napoleon Hill.

        The section on: 30 major causes of failure:

        #23: "A person with a 'closed' mind on any subject seldom gets ahead."

        I believe that you likely exhibit a few more as well. That one appears certain to me.

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        • ...And you don't see any irony here either, do you? You have refused to address criticism to your perspective and instead launch into ad hominems towards me when I've been listening and addressing your views.

          Believe me when I tell you that I won't be "believing" anything you say when you're too blind to see your own hypocrisy.

          That said, I'm good, bro. I have a job, I got a girl, I got a home, I got an adorable doggo, and I even have some fish. What you got? You have a book to tell you to be successful.

          I really dislike this phrase but my God does it fit. Ok, Boomer.

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          • Shit man I was on your side before you used the ok boomer line. You totally lost me there.

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            • Same. Simp would fit well to the context, but "Ok, Boomer" really is a bad one. It matters nothing how old the dude is, or if his opinions are from a different time it's just a shit rebuttal.

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            • Trust me, I was on my own side until I used that line too. :'(

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      • I agree

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  • Women would not prefer it if they had to woo men and risk rejection.
    I wouldn't mind, because I like challenges. Understand that societal attitudes on the value on men and women are different. If a man is rejected by a woman, he is not seen as worthless, or a failure, and may have other recognised talents. If a girl is rejected, and told she is unattractive, it is a heavier blow, because of the weight on appearance for women is definitely bigger. Many sit coms and movies feature ugly men with hot wives, but they charm them, and they're special/funny/quirky so it's fine. Furthermore, a woman who pursues a man is labelled a whore, maybe more so in my country than America, but women aren't allowed to be the pursuers or doers. In nature, insects, birds, and mammals alike show males to be competitive for females, through fight, display of dances, wing formations, etc. Sperm cells are plentiful, and it's quick and easy for a man to reproduce. Eggs are astronomically smaller in number, and it takes longer and is more painful for a woman to reproduce. 9 months as a liability, in a weakened body that is often treated like public property. She vomits in the morning, hurts her back through the day, misses activities she used to do, goes through mood swings, and becomes more vulnerable. This is why women are picky. If all that is going to happen, it should be worth it.

    - Women would not prefer the societal standard of paying for the date while the man doesn't.
    I will be honest, I would prefer not to pay for dates. It's not very common for men to pay anymore, though. Many cool modern girls say they will pay for their man, and also give him what he wants on the first date. But I think, from observation, men often like to provide. They like the influence it gives them, and to look after people. And it goes into the dynamic. When a woman is with a man, properly married, she will change her whole life for him. Whilst she carries his baby, he is free to roam the earth with his body. She looks after her man, and that's part of her schedule, and becomes like an extension to the man's life. The man is the main character in life. You wouldn't get it if the world was made for you, but it is. She will give her youth and her energy to you, and it is not easy to be a mother at all.
    - Women would not prefer having men view the average woman as less than average in terms of attractiveness.
    Women are objectively more interesting, aesthetically. They have blossoming curves, and more delicate features. I appreciate the aesthetic of a woman more. Furthermore, women put more effort into looking attractive. Shaving arms and legs, skin care, makeup, dieting, clothing, extensions...most men wouldn't go this far.

    - //Women would not prefer taking primary responsibility for providing while the man didn't.//
    It's not as easy to make money as a woman. I believe women are conditioned to believe they are not as clever, not special, and have value in looks. That's why so many girls starve themselves as teenagers. That's why so many women sleep around. That's why they look for attention online for their body. It's female socialisation. They are taught they are valuable because of their bodies and looks, ergo, they behave this way. Give them a break. We need to teach young women and not berate them. We are all products of our surroundings. Women don't believe in themselves like men do. They will be talked over in the office, and may not be as likely to be hired. Losing money for having children. If men want to have children, they don't have to lose their careers, interests, or independence. They have stronger bodies without doing anything, and are less vulnerable to the world. So it makes sense that men are the providers, as women often sacrifice youth and livelihood for a men. If both play their roles with mutual respect, I've no problem. If I was a man, the main character, the inflicter, the doer, instead of the inflicted, the vessel, the vulnerable, I would gladly pay. I would have more strength and independence, and could focus on a career, and provide better. No worrying about appearance, no carrying a baby, no vulnerability, a strong voice and body. A good tradeoff to me. Men's actions are excused, also. If a man yells, it is assertive. A woman? She's probably menstruating. My dad gossips a bunch, I love him, but I know he won't be respected less for it. For men, it is 'shooting the breeze'. For women, it's a 'mother's meeting' or 'gossiping'. If a woman is unmarried by a certain age, she is 'wasted goods', a man, on the other hand, would be a 'bachelor'. When a man acts out, he is called out, as an individual. If women act out- partying, whoring around, lying or being crude, the crowd will exclaim "the state of women today..."

    - Women would not prefer society viewing them being hit by their partner as less serious.
    Men are physically stronger. Domestic violence is statistically more against women, and men are more likely to commit violent crimes by a large margin

    - Women would not prefer having to propose for marriage.
    If I was a man, I wouldn't care at all. Being the one to make the move and not being called a whore. Nature shows that men are supposed to show they are worthy of the female, by fighting, gaining territory, or showing a wing dance. In return, the female gives her youth and damages her body for the male, and her efforts are focused on their offspring whilst he can fly free. It's nature. I really would not mind at all, and rejection wouldn't be seen as as much of a failure anyway if I was male.

    - Women would not prefer not being able to opt out of parenthood while men could.
    Have you ever heard "keep your legs shut?" Well, how about "keep your pp in?" Both men and women should take responsibility for their sexual actions. Most women form emotional bonds to both foetus and baby. No one is forcing men to have sex, and if they are so mature, so clever, then they should have made the right choice. Many women around the world can't opt out of parenthood. I don't agree with abortion, or men abandoning your child. Both sides should take responsibility. Control over sexual behaviour is a start, so I think we should change our society's values.
    - Women would not prefer having little to no safety net for domestic violence while men have all of them.

    - Women would not prefer it if men could choose to have a child and force them to pay for the child they didn't want.
    If I was a man, I would choose to wait until marriage, as I am now, and not have sex with people I don't care about or want to start a family with. It isn't hard for me because I practice self control. No literature or media with sexual influences.

    That's just a few but I could keep going. Are you telling me that you think women would prefer things be that way?
    1)When mentally unstable women get into relationships with criminals, women as a whole often get called out. "Why are women like this? Surely every woman is a demon that is mentally unstable and wants to be with a murderer who hits her, because women are into that"
    If men commit acts of genocide, like in the holodomor, or soldiers slaughtering in mass, like in Nanjing, or the soviets in Germany, it is forgotten. "Those men were very evil people"
    Even if men commit about 88% of crimes against a person and 90% of homicides (ministry of justice), the crowd will go "damn bro that suxx" or blame it on the single mothers that raised them, because you should always blame the mother who stays over the father who goes, right?
    Teenage boys will literally microwave hamsters and rape cats. But they are still treated as individuals.
    2)Men don't get called out for being the attention seekers. Look at me!! I made my car really loud! I play music so everyone hears me!! I punch the walls like a big boy!! Look at me, I just made you feel embarrassed and gross!
    3) Women are too emotional, they can't make decisions...
    if men are too weak to control themselves around a woman with exposed skin, that says a lot more...

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    • You say you wouldn't mind having this role, yet this role has always been afforded to you, you just never took it up because it is harder.
      I agree, rejection is harder for women to handle which is why they wouldn't be able to handle a man's responsibility to risk it. Also, a study for dating apps has shown that women are far harsher when judging a man's appearance than men are for judging women's by the fact women view the average man to be less than average in physical appearance.

      Sitcoms. Sitcoms also represent these men as ugly providers. Could you imagine if women were represented as ugly providers for gorgeous men and are always wrong with their husbands always being the smart and right one?
      Women are not viewed as whores for initiating romance with someone they are romantically interested in. I could accept that they're considered whores if they do it on a regular basis for sex alone, though.

      Men like to provide because it displays them as being successful in the societal obligations put on them. If that societal expectation was instead put on women and not on men it would be a much different story.

      I don't agree with you representing marriage the way you did. Yes, a woman's life changes but usually in the ways she wants. This is why women are far more likely to want marriage than men are. Again, women have the option to choose that lifestyle or not and women expect that of their husbands. Marriage isn't men forcing women into a lifestyle, it's quite the opposite.

      I'm somewhat the opposite to you when it comes to appearance. I much prefer men aesthetically. I feel that a man's defined body is far more interesting with it's design and shape. That said, you're right when you mention men not being expected to take as much care in their appearance but again that's on women. We all know the go-to phrase about women not preferring a man that takes more time to get ready than she herself does. A popular criticism to those types of men from women is that when a man does these things they feel that he puts more attention on to how he looks than how she looks.

      You say it's not easy for women to make money, which I won't say you're lying but you are wrong. You are aware that public jobs are far easier for women to get than men, right? Bar staff, shops, waiting, etc. It's a known preference when it comes to hiring because people prefer to see the average woman than the average man. I also disagree with the claim that women are conditioned not to make money in today's age when all we talk about is how capable and better women are at anything. I feel like this is an excuse to the point made. Women are not taught they they are only valuable for their looks, the truth is that they are taught it's an easy method to be considered valuable, that's the difference. So while women can be held to the same standard as men to be considered valuable women also have the option of a much easier route to value, their looks, and because this method is far easier to obtain a lot of girls will take this method instead of working to earn value.
      What do you mean men are less vulnerable to the world? That's not true at all. They're the majority of workplace deaths, the majority of the homeless, the majority of the suicide rates, the majority of substance abuse, the minority of students, and so forth. Women do not sacrifice "youth and livelihood" for men, it's women that want to get married. We really need to stop pretending it's men forcing women into marriage here because we both know that it's women pushing for these things from men and not the reverse. Ofcourse men have to lose their interests and independence, they're expected to provide for an entire family and when that child comes of age to where 24/7 support is not needed, be it due to schools or simply becoming an adult that man still has to work as hard to provide where as the woman's free-time is drastically increased. It's not women that sacrifice in this subject at all.

      Men's actions are excused? Absolutely not. Women are far less likely to get the death penalty for the same crime and are more likely to get less time for the same crime. You have women like CardiB who openly admitted to drugging and molesting men and still absolutely nothing. Let's not even get into the differences on how society views abusing husbands as opposed to abusive wives.

      Men being stronger does not negate abuse done to them. Abuse is abuse and all forms of it is wrong. My point is that women could not handle a society that excuses violence done to them but puts scrutiny on them if they hit men. You didn't address this point with your answer. The statistics for domestic violence is actually unknown. Some studies actually suggest women are the majority of abusers but that most seriously abused victims are women, at that point you have to consider what's worse quality or quantity. That said, I'll go with a fair number. Some studies suggest men make up to 40% of all domestic violence victims but they also suggest that men are far less likely to report their abuse or even consider their abuse domestic violence, which means no matter what number we choose from the likelihood is that the number is far greater due to either not considering their abuse as abuse or being far less likely to come forward about that. So let's look at that number. 40%, that's almost half. Do you know how much funding for domestic violence shelters goes to male domestic violence shelters? 4%.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ8bnRrr4l8 (This is a fun little video on the subject. Watch these guys, they're hilarious)

      Nobody has called a woman a whore for proposing. You really need to stop using this as a go-to. That said, the nature of wild animals excuse really needs to go. I could take that down a really dark route to justify a whole lot of fucked up shit. How wild animals are does not represent, nor should, how those living in civilisation with far more complex social matters. You seem to claim you're fine with risking rejection in this way yet you admitted at the start you haven't. How can you hold the view that you wouldn't mind yet haven't when you could?

      Let's wager. Women have to deal with, "Keep your legs shut" men have to deal with "Should of kept it in your pants and now you have to pay 18+ years for a child you didn't want". To even argue this point is astounding. Women have safety nets. If a woman gets pregnant she can abort, men do not have these options. I take it you're opposed to abortion then? That if a woman wants an abortion then tough luck, she should of been more responsible? Or is this just something you hold men accountable for? You didn't answer this question, though. Would you prefer it if men had the option to opt out while the woman was told "You should of been responsible" and had no option to opt out?

      You didn't answer the point about forcing women to pay for a child they didn't want. I wasn't asking what you personally would do, I'm asking would you prefer it if the system was built to put you in that disadvantage.

      Now we're going to get to points you make up. I was looking forward to this bit.

      1. Yes, I would happily take up men as a whole being demeaned in this way if in exchange men get all of the domestic violence shelters, exposure, and groups taking their abuse seriously. I would also take this over the likely case that if a man phones up to report his partner abusing him that there is a strong chance he will be the one leaving in cuffs as all she has to do is claim he was abusing her.

      2. Men are absolutely called out for these things. Heck, you can just type the videos into Youtube and you will see an abundance of people mocking these exact people. Christ, even shows like South Park has openly mocked these exact types of men with the Harley episode.

      3. What era do you live in where this is the mainstream? If this was a general view society has then women wouldn't have jobs, my dude.

      Your comment did disappoint me but I do appreciate that you wanted to go in to depth. That said, your points just don't represent our culture. Things like claiming men force women into a marriage lifestyle, etc.

      I'm happy to continue the conversation but you put in so much stuff that just isn't true and sound more like cliches than genuine points that I feel like it's a chore to respond. That might sound disrespectful but my point here is that if we are going to continue this discussion could we perhaps start with just one aspect of this discussion so that we're not having a bunch that results into comments this long?




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      • "Rejection is harder for women because they can't handle it"
        It would be harder if your value is weighted in whether you are married or not, and what men think of you. I personally care very little, especially when it's men I don't know. Men don't apply makeup and master the art of angles and lighting like women do, so they will be rated as uglier. Also, women have a right to be picky, because it is riskier for them to reproduce, it damages them, and it takes longer. Nine months of carrying life and being vulnerable and in pain compared to a jizz and whizz manoeuvre.
        If women were the ugly providers serving men in shows, so be it, except nobody would watch the show. The point is that it's believable for an ugly and stupid man to be with a woman because the main character is just so charming and quirky that it's ok. More value is attributed to women's appearance because they are the passive reproducers. Like flowers to bees. They are beautiful hosts, in regards to reproduction, and bees are the ones who make journeys and search for them. Men struggle by fighting to prove themselves, like seals clashing, or swans displaying, and women struggle by carrying life and focusing energy into looking after it. Even in nature, females often lay down their lives for their offspring. In the medieval times, about 10% of women would die from childbirth. Women are aesthetic as passive producers. They display, not do.
        With jobs such as waitressing etc, remember that these are low money and low influence jobs. Image oriented. In offices, women are often talked over, ignored, and told to do little tasks by men asserting dominance.
        Another study found that women in emergency departments are less likely to be taken seriously than men. In a 2014 study from Sweden, once in the A&E women waited significantly longer to see a doctor and were less often classified as an urgent case. Women's voices aren't taken as seriously.
        Marriage:
        Yes, it is by choice that a woman does these things. If she loves her man and sees him as a worthy father of the child, she will provide by giving her youth, her energy, her freedom and her body to the marriage. It is no easier for women than it is for men. Men provide financially, which can be very exhausting, and by helping looking after the family. Women cook the meals, provide s3x (and often play into her man's weird k1nks), drive kids around, look pretty, and consider everyone's emotions. They don't get to leave home as much. Most women these days work, and by statistic, they still do most work around the house. See, they both provide. Women don't have it easier, I would say in this regard, it's about the same.
        Marriage is seen as ultimate feminine success for women. In the fairytales, she gets married and lives happily every after, and also in romantic comedies. Marriage signifies that you are of significant enough value to lock down a provider for your offspring. So I believe both sides sacrifice. To reproduce is a goal in the lives of both men and women. For men, to find as many hosts (women) to clone their DNA is the objective. It's just status.
        Beauty and value:
        When men see a beautiful women, they see an object. They're not evil, it's nature. Scientists found that when men looked at women with a bikini on, they associates it more with words like 'i grab'and 'i do', and the part of the brain that associates with tools and objects lit up. See, you can have value for beauty, but you will be seen as an object. You won't be respected as much as a skilled man. When women see beautiful women, they see curves, and lines, and colours, and an expression. When this woman speaks, they can connect, and she will consider her. Women appreciate other women in a way that men usually cannot.
        Do you notice that female sexuality is juxtaposed with violence in horror movies? I think men don't like how, as the ones with physical power, a woman's body and feminine charm can take over his mind, and have power over him. The violence towards women is the man retaking the power that this woman has, and 'punishing her' for it. Men like to see this. It makes them feel like they are in power. In Islamic countries, women can be forced to be wrapped from head to toe in stifling cloth, and cover themselves completely. In my country, acid has been thrown at women by ex boyfriends, dissolving their beauty.
        I think men catcall to take back the power that female sexuality has. Things that make you afraid, or feel gross. They make women feel dirty for being attractive, and threaten them. It's not a compliment when it's to a 15 year old girl, and you're threatening to kidnap her. My little sister went through this. At 11, she was followed by an adult man. She didn't understand it at the time, but our mom was furious. Men don't know what it's like to walk down the street and feel scared, and to blend in. So this value, that women have comes with a sting. It's not easy.
        Risk in life
        These workplace deaths, substance abuses, and suicides break my heart. I wish men would seek help more. I would attribute the increased substance abuse to higher risk taking behaviour, and suicide to societal pressure to succeed paired with being expected to be unfeeling. And it must be really hard, to be expected to be tough, a good provider, to not take wounds from life. Men have put these pressures on themselves. They have called each other pussies, and shamed each other for being down. To change it, attitudes with friends and family who are male need to change.
        Less funding is given to male domestic abuse shelters because less men by statistic are abused by their partners. Men are stronger, and are less vulnerable to the force of a woman. It can happen, but it's rare. Lots of casual abuse happens to women. Like how cases of men slapping women in the face during s3x is becoming more common, and women hurt to accomodate men's p0rnsick fetishes.
        Men's actions have been excused. In America, violence against native women is far less reported than towards white women, so if it's to native women, the men are more free. A 19 year old girl joined the military, and was gangr4ped, but this was covered up for years. Cases in Anchorage, Alaska, show that men threaten women frequently, and accounts from women state that they are often told to 'call back later'- this even happened when a man broke into her house, drunk.
        In South Korea, actresses have been blackmailed into s3x, and pushed to suicide. Did anybody care? The men responsible were ignored for ages, even after female actresses warned each other to be careful around these particular men.
        Marriage and Respect
        I was wrong in the sense that you aren't a whore for proposing, but I stand my belief that a man who has a woman propose to him respects her less.
        I still don't care about what men think of me, unless it's a man I value as a person. I have little interest in relationships, but I have to reproduce for my family, and I want to be respected by my husband, so I would not propose. See, I wouldn't value myself less as a person if he didn't respect me, but he may not take me as seriously if I proposed, and be a less good father to our child and protector of our family. It's pretty instrumental for me at this point. I don't want to hurt anyone, but I will never see men the same way again.
        Animal argument: true, it could be used to justify messed up stuff, but there are different roles to play regardless. The one that carries the child is vulnerable, and has more effort in reproducing. I have heard that it hurts the first time, and pregnancy is bothersome, tiring, and painful. So men should prove they are worthy of all this for their child, that they are a worthy partner. That's the tradeoff. If he's proved to be strong, and reliable, the pregnancy is worth it.
        Pregnancy and Responsibility.
        I believe in responsibility and consequences, yes. I'm not ashamed. Money should be invested in homes for unwanted children, and these institutions should be run by women, for the safety of the children. Just because it wasn't planned, doesn't mean it doesn't deserve life. Not everything in life is planned out. A woman I know was scarred by miscarriage- for many women, losing a child is devastating, and abortions are rare because of the emotional bonds formed. Furthermore, the woman will give her identity, her health, and her life to her child. She will probably not be able to be in another relationship again for a while. Less time to focus on beauty, diet, interests. Her child makes men leave the door. She is suffering the consequences of her actions. The man pays the price for irresponsible s3x, with money. But I believe that you should know the character of your partner before intercourse, and so it's on you if you have s3x irresponsibly. Sleeping around leads to weaker emotional bonds from intercourse, and statistically, the more partners you have before marriage, the more likely you are to divorce. Irresponsible intercourse has consequences. Women shouldn't pay for a child if they're already carrying and raising it. There you go. If men looked after it, they should receive some support, but less, because they aren't having their bodies taxed like women.
        1) Men don't need as much help with domestic violence because they aren't abused as much. It matters, but I would give more resources to females as they need it more.
        2) Yes, men face consequences for their actions like that, but it isn't attributed to their whole gender, as women are so very often lumped into one. It doesn't matter if you were weak, you would be called a "cuck" for lying, and women would be called "women, amiright?" or "hysterical". The hypothetical crowd would have more hatred of the woman who enters a relationship with an evil man than a man who does evil things.
        3) It's happened for years. Remember, the studies when women's pain was ignored in hospitals, despite having the same symptoms? This was in a first world country. Women's opinions are valued less. A woman's rage, remember, is hysterics, or the influence of menses, and a man's is just rage. I saw these attitudes growing up. It probably wasn't on purpose, but it was said.
        P.s I never said men force women into marriage. Also, you attributed one action (Cardi B's, to reality)- that's generalising, so if I'm using cliches, you're not so different.

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        • You are so disconnected from the world that I don't know if I can make it through this response.

          "Rejection is harder for women because they can't handle it"
          Women are not valued on if they are married or not. The majority of women are not married and there is a multitude of women that aren't married and are among the most valued of society.
          Everyone has the right to be picky but that isn't the point. The point is you cannot say that men value women on looks more than women value men on looks if men are more generous and sensible when it comes to judging women on their looks while women are irrationally categorising men as less valuable because they aren't at the top tier of physical attractiveness. You just said it's wrong that men judge women on their looks and then when I show you the reverse is more accurate you try to justify it.
          It is not riskier for a woman to pick the wrong man than vice versa as women are more likely to initiate divorces which can result in a man's resources he earned being stripped from him, aswell as his children. I'm skipping the rest of this point because you can't comprehend that the human male and female are drastically different than, let's say, fuckin' penguins, telling you so won't change that.

          "Jobs"
          Low paying work is the starting point to better things. Women are more likely to get these jobs than men. Yes, they're low paying for low-skilled work but do you know what's worse than low pay? No pay, which is what men risk far more due to female bias in these fields.
          No, people talking over eachother is not something exclusive to women. Men and women do this to eachother and I seriously question your experience in life if you have not realized this yourself.
          Yes, men may be seen before women in A&E, this could well be because men are more prone to injury due to job types and due to being the majority of violent crime victims. People go to A&E for different reasons.
          Saying women's voices aren't taken seriously when there's dominant social groups for women while men's are laughed at is astounding.

          "Marriage"
          All of these things are things men also do for women or work to ensure the woman can do them. You once again ignored a key point I made which is that when the children go to school or move out the woman's load is lessened while the man's work load stays the same, giving women much more free time.

          "Beauty and value"
          False, they see a human subject with a sexual context. Yes, when men see a woman in sexually appealing attire they will think of engaging in sexual "acts" "with" the woman. If you think a man looks at a sexually appealing woman the same way he looks at a hammer then you do not understand men.
          You ignored my point again. Yes, an attractive woman with no achievements will not be valued like a man with achievements. That goes for everyone, even attractive men with no achievements will be valued less. My point was that being valued for beauty is an easy to achieve goal that a lot of women go for because it is a "get value quick" method that requires little to no achievements/effort.
          You do also know that your whole point here implies that a man that finds his woman attractive does not love her and only views her as a tool, right? You are so disconnected from people, especially men, that you aren't equipped to deal with this conversation.
          I'm skipping the horror flick part because it's just blind speculation I'm not interested in going in to. I could make the point that women do worse things in this regards such as preferring villains that hurt people in entertainment but I really do not want to go down that whole road.
          Men don't have the fear of walking down the street alone but they do have the risk. Men are the majority of violent crime victims. A man walking alone is more likely to become a victim than a woman is.

          "Risk in life"
          It doesn't break your heart, and you almost got me to believe it did up until, "it's men's fault."
          The real issue here is that people do not care about male issues and whenever they're brought up they're smacked down because we're using our time to bring up male issues instead of female issues. Holy fuck, my dude. Are you seriously trying to tell me that men are more prone to these things because someone called them a pussy instead of things like having their children taken from them or having their resources ripped from them through divorce? My God. You are actually inept, aren't you? Let me give you a heads up because you clearly do not understand men. Men do look out for their buddies. If we have had some fucked up shit happen to us we will have eachothers' backs, you're just so disconnected from men that because they don't do it in ways women do with their female friends you think it doesn't happen at all. Do you not think that maybe, just fuckin' mayyyyyyybe that there's a multitude of reasons that result in this? Like say how women are far less likely to go for the "average man" because she finds them unappealing therefor the average man, the majority of men, are day in and day out facing rejection and the threat of a loveless life? Did that cross your mind? The fact you can sit there and say it breaks your heart while offering some bullshit point of, "lol, I wus culled pooseh, gwes al kill mee'sel", or saying that men are heartless enough to not care about their male friends while thinking women whor are a man's gateway to loving life has absolutely fuckin' nothing to do with it at all is astounding. WOOO! Now that got me a lil heated.
          Ohhhh, fuck me sideways on a pogostick, are you really this dense? I gave you a statistic. If you ain't going to read what I'm saying to you then don't bother responding to the shit you ain't reading. Men make up almost half of all domestic violence victims and they're far less likely to come forward which means that the number is possibly even higher. Not only this but do you know what demographic has the highest percentage of domestic violence when compared to their population? Lesbians. Yeah, that's right, if you're a lesbian you're much more likely to experience domestic abuse. Funny that when you put a domestic situation with more women and less men more violence happens, isn't it?
          Less funding is given to men because nobody cares about men's suffering at the hands of women, and this is also demonstrated by the multitude of videos that do the very experiment of the public's reaction to when each sex is abusive to their partner.
          Men being stronger than women has no involvement in this subject. I already stated this. Abuse is abuse. Just because a woman's abuse might hurt less does not mean that person isn't abused, you absolute delinquent.
          How men slap women during sex, my dude, you mean like when women feel free to slap a man for offending them?
          Yeah, ok, I ain't taking you seriously. How in the fuck have you just excused men being abused by claiming men are stronger therefor the force of physics doesn't apply when a woman abuses a man then turn around in the very same paragraph and claim men's actions against women are excused...Am I having a a damn stroke? How are you this stupid? Have I stroked out? Have you? Someone has fuckin' stroked out here, my dude.

          "Marriage and respect"
          I'm sorry but I can't help but laugh here. You've irritated me enough to the point I can't help but laugh at your stupid takes anymore. Yeah, the part of me taking your sorry set of arguments seriously has sailed off. "I don't want to propose and risk rejection because I'd be respected less and he won't love his children as much for it."
          Yeah, cus that's how it works. "Come here little Billy, I'mm'a whoop your ass for your mother proposing to me". You just blatantly accepted you could not handle the male experience in this subject and made some bullshit argument for it. It must be so convenient to blame men for you getting the easy road. "Look, folks! I didn't pick the easy road! Men forced me into it!" Laughable.
          "Hey, the one carrying the child is vulnerable! See me? I'm like a pregnant penguin. Sure, I have all the things to prevent me from environmental dangers civilization gives me, and sure predators won't just break up from the ice and tear me apart with their bare teeth, BUT GOD DAMN IT I'M AS VULNERABLE AS A PREGNANT PENGUIN!"

          1) Already told you that men make almost half of domestic violence victims. You ignored this.
          2) The phrase toxic masculinity is now a mainstream phrase. Your point is ruined.
          3) You mean kind of like how a man's abuse is ignored and made to sound non-existent which is why they shouldn't receive funding and if they kill themselves it's because someone called them "u eez a beech" instead of having safety nets like women?

          Your arguments are absolutely terrible and if I respond to your next response do not expect a serious one from me.

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          • "Rejection is harder for women because they can't handle it"
            //Women are not valued on if they are married or not. The majority of women are not married and there is a multitude of women that aren't married and are among the most valued of society.//
            It is very common for women to be looked down on by family members if they do not marry. It is just a fact that women will hear "any guy you're with?" or "when are you getting married?" with family. In my family, if I do not have children, I will be the subject of gossip, and looked down upon. I have been told "you're not going to do that", in regards to not having children, and I have to marry to be respected. My experience is uncommon. A girl I went to class with whilst in school has an older sister who is shunned for being childless, despite being a lawyer. And, the point is, it's going to matter to women, because they have been taught to care, by fairytales, by movies, and by television. Cinderella marries a prince, as does Snow White, Aurora, and Belle. It really is drilled in, even if unintentionally. I still love the beautiful animations of these movies. But yeah. You are, I'm guessing American, and I'm not, so there are cultural differences. But the point is, just because the situation is one way in your part of the world, doesn't mean that it's the same in others. 130 million girls are not receiving an education. Child marriage and sex trafficking are, predominantly, female problems. Women don't get to walk through town in many parts of the world without overthinking what they wear, who they're with, when they go and where they go. Across the world, women have to marry for protection- from what threat? Men. When women threatened men with their intelligence, like Hypatia, they were decapitated. When women threatened men with the power of their sexuality, they were raped and murdered, so men could take it back. If women had knowledge of medicine, they were burned at the stake. Did you know that in your country, America, women who owned private property could have it taken away if men said that they were witches? If women congregated? Witchcraft. They had to be under the thumb of men, no room for their own minds, their own spaces, or each other's company. By forcing women out of careers through intimidation and accusations of witchcraft, women are forced to marry and undergo abuse. In your nation, 1/6 women will be the victim of attempted or completed rape, compared to 1/33 men. According to the NSVRC, 91% of victims of rape and sexual assault are women, and 9% male. And, despite being 49% of the US population, 96% of child molestors are male.
            A research report from the NIJCDC records 7.4% of men and 22% of men have been victims of domestic abuse. This is in your country. I gave you a statistic. You said men are 'probably' less likely to come forward. You estimated. That's the difference.

            Back to attraction.
            When you're on a dating site, the first thing you see is a biography, and a picture. You got these statistics from dating sites. So, it is shallow. Women don't irrationally categorise men as less attractive- men don't put in as much effort as women do. Men do not wear makeup very much, or have the same knowledge of angles, lighting, or flattering clothing as men do. Women know how to brush up. It's not that, objectively, men are less attractive necessarily, it's the amount of effort put in. I don't think you addressed it when I said this.
            Furthermore, I never said it was wrong that men judged women on their looks, I just said that men judge women on their looks. Men are creatures of nature, and it is natural. I hope you understand the difference now.

            Divorce and Marriage
            Many divorces are initiated by women in the USA. That doesn't mean the divorce is the woman's fault. As I said, porn is 56% the cause of divorce, many men practice infidelity, women are more likely to be abused by their partners. Furthermore a partner (boyfriend/husband) is responsible in almost 40% of homicides involving a female victim, compared with 6% partner responsibility for homicides involving a male victim.(Johnson, Holly; Eriksson, Li; Mazerolle, Paul; Wortley, Richard (2017-04-07). "Intimate Femicide: The Role of Coercive Control")
            Men may lose a portion of their money, but they may be responsible for their own divorces. If he beat his wife, if he taught her to detest herself, if he created life and abandoned it, then the ex wife is being tolled in a different and very significant way.

            Labour
            Adrienne Hancock, a researcher at the Department of Speech and Hearing Sciences at George Washington University and MSc student Benjamin Rubin ran a study where they got 20 men and 20 women to have conversations with each other. The volunteers were told to talk about both gender-neutral and more gender-specific topics (think, mobile phone use and reality TV). And men would interrupt other men twice, but would interrupt women 2.6 times. That's pretty relevant
            Women doubt themselves more, and pubescent girls rate themselves as less clever and good looking then boys rate themselves- despite women in the us being ahead academically, and occupying more places in universities.
            It is more hazardous to be homeless as a female, so women get more help if they're on the streets. However, aid does need to be channeled towards men also.
            It's really hard for women to break into fields if they're a minority in it. Rape in the military is a problem left alone all too often, and in construction work, women aren't hired as often as they apply.
            -While women make up 70% of chronic pain patients, 80% of pain medication has been tested only on men.
            Women wait longer for pain medication than men. Workplace injury is more common for men, but it is a less common occurence than health issues. Women have issues with chronic pain, endometriosis effects 1 in 10 women in the US, and it is often pain equivalent to childbirth during sex or menstruation.
            You know why there are dominant groups for women? Maybe it's the fact that women have to make groups for themselves, because, often, the world isn't made for them. They congregate separately as a refuge in a male world, and that's ok.

            Crime
            Men are more often victims of violent crimes, but they also get involved in crime by choice far often then women. Furthermore, they are the biggest perpetrator of violent crimes, so it is men hurting themselves for the most part. Women are more often killed by male partners.
            Yes, men may be seen before women in A&E, this could well be because men are more prone to injury due to job types and due to being the majority of violent crime victims. People go to A&E for different reasons.

            Beauty and Value, Revisited

            My statement that men viewed women without many clothes as tools was based on this study, from National Geographic.
            Brain scans revealed that when men are shown pictures of scantily clad women, the region of the brain associated with tool use lights up.

            Men were also more likely to associate images of sexualized women with first-person action verbs such as "I push, I grasp, I handle," said lead researcher Susan Fiske, a psychologist at Princeton University.

            And in a "shocking" finding, Fiske noted, some of the men studied showed no activity in the part of the brain that usually responds when a person ponders another's intentions.

            This means that these men see women "as sexually inviting, but they are not thinking about their minds," Fiske said. "The lack of activation in this social cognition area is really odd, because it hardly ever happens."
            Fiske and colleagues asked 21 heterosexual male volunteers to first take a test that scores people based on different types of sexist attitudes. The subjects were then shown pictures of both skimpily dressed and fully clothed men and women.

            Most of the men best remembered headless photographs of women in bikinis, even if they'd only seen the image for two-tenths of a second, Fiske reported this weekend in Chicago during the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science.

            And the men who scored higher as "hostile sexists"—those who view women as controlling and invaders of male space—didn't show brain activity that indicates they saw the women in bikinis as humans with thoughts and intentions.

            Scientists have seen this absence of activation only once before, in a study where people were shown off-putting photographs of homeless people and drug addicts.

            If a similar study were done with women, Fiske told National Geographic News, it would be hard to predict whether a woman shown a scantily clad male body would dehumanize him in the same way.

            Evolutionary psychologists have proposed that women tend to look for mates who have wealth and power, so some of Fiske's colleagues have suggested running a similar test where women are shown pictures of men next to expensive cars or other affluent symbols.

            But Fiske doesn't think such an experiment would work the same way, because women usually react to men they desire by "interpreting their minds, thinking about what they're interested in, and then trying to please them," she said.


            Marriage (again)

            Whilst the load is 'lifted', when children go to school, there are still two years of closeness to the child in which breastfeeding and nurturing often occurs. Furthermore, in the USA, more women work than ever, but still do most of the chores at home, so they are just taking on a larger load than they previously did. This is statistically supported.

            Male Issues

            You jumped to a conclusion about whether I cared or not. Many people are responsible in part for their own misery, but that doesn't mean it doesn't affect me. When kids fall out of a tree after climbing very dangerously, it still hurts to watch them fall, and I don't want it to happen again. But you see, to be making more personal statements rather than statements related to the argument. More crude language, and you have said I was "disconnected" and "inept" and been condescending. I am not offended. It seems more defensive than anything, which is interesting.
            Charities for women are, very often, set up for women, including the ones that operate in my area. There is help from Islamic sisterhood, and help for victims of sexual exploitation. No one is stopping men from setting up charities either.
            No one smacks you down for bringing up male issues. r/unpopularopinion is filled with male issue discussions, and many women show interest in male issues. There is a whole hype about the idea of 'listening to men', and twitter telling men it's ok to cry etc. Women fully support it.
            Society's standards for men were put in place by men, who gatekeeped masculinity, and put other men down to raise themselves up. In my country, single gender schools are really common, and the tales my father has of boys' schools are grim. Weaker and shorter guys get bullied. Guys who don't participate in casual misogyny are called 'pussies' and nowadays, 'simps'. Men do it to each other, for the approval of men. Women throw each other under the bus for male approval, like 'cool girls' and antifeminists. Girls who say 'I'm not like other girls', and say 'I hate pink and shopping and parties' pigeonhole the character of females because they know that men hate most women, which explains their efforts to prove they are not alike to other women, and it's for male approval, again. See the parallel?
            Also, I didn't say that males don't care about their friends. You put words in my mouth and I wish you wouldn't, for the sake of discussion. Neither did I say that merely being called a pussy made men commit suicide. You went on an illogical and almost illiterate rant. Men make each other feel they can't reach out for help, how often do you see women calling men faggots? I have seen women being blamed for raising men to be too emotional, so I don't know what society wants of them anymore, only to scapegoat women.
            The threat of a loveless life

            On a date gone wrong, the worst a man usually gets is rejection, and embarrassment. For women? Rape, stalking, harrassment. My mother has been chased by men down the street and had a rape attempt on her in a taxi, my auntie was stalked, and my little sister was stalked at the age of 11 and had photos taken of her by a stranger. I don't think you have ill intentions, but you live life as the default character, male, in a world made for you, you wouldn't understand as easily how our worlds compare. For you, a loveless life is a threat, for women, rape, murder, and stalking are the threat. I don't think women are the gateway to men's happiness. Men seek male approval more than female approval, which explains their participation in toxic behaviours, but they appreciate the female form more. Women aren't holding anything back from men, because they aren't themselves a resource. They are givers of life.

            Abuse

            If a man is stronger, he is more likely to be able to cause fatalities to his partner, and statistics show this is true, and women are far more likely to die at the hands of a partner than men. They have the power to hurt, and are by nature more aggressive than women, due to testosterone, and also commit the vast majority of violent crimes, so I would be cautious. Men's actions aren't often excused, but people find a way to blame women. Blame the girl who rejected him. Blame the mother who didn't love him enough. Because a man decided to take life.

            Marriage and Respect

            Men are more likely to cheat on women who earn more than them, by statistic. Proposing often includes showing that you have resources, and are providing. You buy a ring, and set stuff up, right?
            Back to the cheating on high earning wives. It's because men need to feel needed. They often like young brides because they can influence them and because they will need them more. Women who propose and initiate marriage and thus protection and love are filling a role that men naturally want to fill.
            Pregnant women are vulnerable because they are dependent it becomes harder to do the same jobs when carrying extra weight. You can't walk too far without being very tired and sore. You need to be supported but it is too much to support yourself, to work, clean, etc. You are dependent on somebody being there to help you. A husband, friend ,sister, mother, etc. That is why pregnant women are vulnerable. They need to be careful about what they eat or drink and how they live also.

            1) I have disproved it. Also, worldwide, this is not the case. America is not the whole world, and women's issues matter everywhere.
            2)Mainstream doesn't mean irrelevant. I didn't use the phrase, however, and so I don't see how that's relevant. I pointed out abusive behaviours, gave statistics, gave reasoning.
            3)Men's abuse isn't ignored, it's a smaller issue, and there is increasing publicity on the subject, if you have recently been on Reddit, which is used a lot in America. I never said that men's charities shouldn't be funded. Don't put words in my mouth. I also never said that men commit suicide from being called a name, it's abusive bullying from childhood, it's societal attitudes implemented by men, and it's reduced emotional communication. Men have issues, and I never said they didn't.

            Compared to your previous answer, this one had more swearing, you put words in my mouth more, and you made more personal statements about me as a person. If you don't want to discuss, don't. If you want to assert yourself, and yell, maybe throw in a threat, at least don't pretend it's a discussion. I'm tired in general of this. We could make the world a better place if we listened to each other, and yelling will cause your point to be heard less under this futile hubbub.

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            • Rejection is harder:
              - Parents want their child to find a relationship regardless of sex.
              - Disney movies display the men to also need marriage but to also prove themselves more for the princess.
              - Next part is an appeal to cultures not in the discussion and history. We're talking about the present western culture.
              - Your rape statistics are false as they consider drunk sex as rape by default. Crime statistics from the bureau of justice do not correlate with that rape statistic.
              - Crime statistics are irrelevant to the topic as we are talking about societal expectations between the sexes.


              Attraction:
              - The average man does not wear make up, claiming they are voted below average for something the average man does not do is a falsehood.
              - The data shows women being more shallow when it comes to appearance than men.

              "Divorce and marriage"
              - A woman initiating divorce is the woman's decision.
              - Most divorces are not due to abuse.
              - A man losing his resources is not exclusive to abusive husbands.

              Labour:
              - Small sample size makes the study unreliable.
              - Study also shows women do the same to other women.
              - Study does not go in-depth to what was asked and what person spent most time talking.
              - If women doubt themselves more they should work on their make up and lighting.
              - Men are the majority of violent crime victims, which make homeless men more at risk.
              - Sent citation on pain medication.

              Crime:
              - Men being attacked by other men is irrelevant, they are still more likely to be victims.

              Beauty and value:
              - Study used the form of entertainment known as softcore pornography which is designed for self-pleasure. This cannot be used to represent how men view the average woman as they are observing a product designed for self-pleasure, not a living woman.
              - Study states that this also happens with the homeless, which are predominantly male.
              - Study states that the only people that viewed the woman as non-human were "hostile sexists", men with a pre-existing bias, which the existence of such participants compromises the study.
              - Study's author refused to do an equivalent study with women. Not a point, just hilarious.

              Marriage:
              - You conceded that a woman's work load lessens while a man's doesn't. Point to me.
              - Citation for women doing more work from home. If citation does not account for part-time and fulltime work then citation is not necessary.

              Male issues:
              - You only identify men's issues with men's responsibilities. If you cannot accept that women have a hand to play in some of men's issues then those issues cannot be solved, meaning you only care so-long as men get blamed, not helped.
              - Women's shelters get funded while male shelters don't get funded by taxpayer money even though men pay most of the taxes.
              - Feminists have protested male events on their issues and shut them down.
              - Internet forums do not compare to government assistance.
              - Masculinity is encouraged by men and women for women. Women are attracted to masculinity which is why men aim to be masculine and why those without those attractive qualities are insulted. If women preferred scrawny passive men this would reverse. This is also illustrated in the entertainment industry with what characters women prefer.
              - You state that you never said men don't help their friends and then state that men don't let other men reach out for help, which implies male friends do not let their friends reach out to them to help them. Hypocrisy.

              Dating gone wrong:
              - You lie about the worst case scenario for men. False allegations are the worst.
              - I have been stalked, sexually assaulted, taken advantage of when drunk, etc. You do not understand these situations.
              - Relationships are the primary gateway to happiness for men and women. To deny this shows your lack of understanding of people.
              - If men were the default character they would have more public resources to helping them. They don't.

              Abuse:
              - Quality over quantity argument is invalid. Just because women suffer more severe abuse does not mean that men do not suffer abuse. Most female abuse victims also do not suffer to the same extent of other female victims, your argument attempts invalidates not only male but female victims.
              - Women are not blamed for their abuse as much as men are. Experiments have shown this by putting men in situations of abuse in public as both victim and perpetrator. The public defended the woman victim while they justified the female perpetrator.

              Marriage and respect:
              - Citation for men cheating on successful partners that demonstrates that the correlation is causation.

              1. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/sep/05/men-victims-domestic-violence
              2. If you cannot find relevancy in society's mainstream being comfortable in blaming a man's behaviour on his gender then it cannot be explained to you.
              3. Male abuse isn't taken seriously. Female perpetrators receive lesser sentences and are less likely to get the death sentence. An internet forum does not equate to taking a topic seriously, funding and exposure does from the same institutions that do so for women of the same crime. You claim to not have stated that men's shelters should not be funded yet justified them not being funded.

              Ending:
              - Yes, it had more swearing. Your arguments display ignorance, double standards, and fake sincerity. You downplay men's issues and justify men's issues not being taken seriously by justifying women getting preferential treatment over men when they suffer the most from it, homelessness.
              - Your level of care for men only applies when women don't need to do anything.
              - The world is not a better place with people like yourself, atleast not on this subject. You expect men to take the blame for women and women to take none of the blame for men. You expect men to do all the work to help women and women to do nothing to help men and you unironically fail to understand that was my original point and that women could not handle that.
              - You are not a solution.

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      • Lmao almost all your comments 'refuting' are long winded like that but you don't want someone else doing it?

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        • Not a single one of my prior responses were as long as this turned out to be and we both know that. I'm simply stating that if they want to go in depth on these subjects then we should tackle one at a time in depth instead of trying to tackle a multitude of points.

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  • We are human. Some of us are strong and some of us are not.

    Gender has sweet fuck all to do with it.

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    • Love the name but yes, gender does have a lot to do with the relations between men and women.

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      • What I am saying is that some people could handle the role reversal and some couldn't, and it is to do with the sort of person they are and not their gender. There is no over arching quality that all women possess that would dictate how they handle the male experience. Some would be fine and some would not.

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  • Women can handle it. Being a woman is way harder than being a man. As someone who's lived both I can tell ya that with confidence. I dont even have to suffer through natural periods. Or risk of childbirth. Potentionalu other stuff

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    • Doubt. Women in general would not be able to handle the societal expectations and responsibilities in life that are expected of men. When it comes to periods I can accept that women are shafted there but cases like child birth? Men can be forced into parenthood with no option to opt by women.

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      • i know too many single moms and children of single moms to count. women are most often forced into parenthood. also, at least for me and everyone i know, women don’t care all that much about romance. trust me, the worst part of being a girl is the fact that i can’t walk alone at night without the fear of being raped. the worst thing about being a woman is that i WAS raped when i was 8.
        romance pales in comparison to those things. yes, there are many disadvantages to being a man, but have you been told that you were good for childbirth and nothing else? or that you can’t do something bc you’re a woman? i’m like 80% lesbian, and all the things you’ve mentioned pertaining to romance don’t bother me, as the more ‘masculine’ person in my current relationship. the worst things about being a man, i think, would be the lack of support for domestic abuse/rape victims, or the lack of emotional support for mental illness. i don’t think, as someone who has lived as a woman my whole life, that it’s particularly harder to live as a man. i’ve been abused, belittled, hated, and hurt for being a woman. i think the reason you got such a positive response to this post was because this community is majorly male, as far as i can tell. if you were to ask the reverse of this question to a room of women, you’d likely get answers that are more female-oriented.

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      • Women can handle it. They are forced by men into more things than youd think. After I transitioned I've really seen were feminism comes from. You get treated differently. As something fragile. As something week. When I worked retail customers didnt trust anything we said unless a man said it. Really I could go on forever. Women can handle being g aman. Being a man is actually very easy.

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        • They couldn't and it's shown by their reluctance to do the things men are made socially responsible for. You can't say what men have to do is something that's easy to do if women in comparison have the ability to take those responsibilities on but choose not to because they have other options available as a woman.

          Women are not forced into things that men are and it's far less likely for the government to be used at the expense of the man for the benefit of the woman, such as I mentioned before with men being forced into a method of parenthood.

          I won't be able to take your word at face value, I don't know if you're lying or not but the suggestion that women aren't listened to is astoundingly wrong, especially when you consider cancel culture, metoo, and feminism yet the male equivalent of those subjects are largely ignored or just accepted. Women are listened to far more in our culture.

          Women could not handle being a man, which is why at every chance they can choose not to take the social responsibilities men have they will refuse them.

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          • Far more yes but not on par as how men are listened to. I never noticed it at first either. But it's there.

            Some will refuse the responsibilities but that's mainly due to being used to a societal driven existence of an "easy" life. Men would take the exact same path and do when presented with the option. Men in traditionally female jobs is at an all time high. And that's just jobs.

            You raise a girl and boy as equals they will take the path identifies with there own self interests more. I usually take th ed harder path my brother the easier path. You raise someone on easy street they will want to remain there. Its simple logic. But many dont raise sons and daughters as equals. Just look at slut shaming. If a girl sleeps with a guy she gets looked down on, a guy sleeps with a girl and hes a hero.

            You'll never convince me of your opinion wich is very easily proven false if you look at the full picture and truly look at the struggles of others

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            • I don't believe you. As a member of society if this was as prevalent as you're implying I would of overheard it happening atleast once. You can't claim that happens in public is prevalent and then imply it's invisible.

              Reading your reply confused me because you seem to agree with my perspective and just not realize it. For example you say women are used to having an "easy life" which is brought on by not having these responsibilities, which would imply the people with these responsibilities have it harder, men.

              I agree that someone being raised on easy street will want to remain there which works perfectly with my point that women do not have these responsibilities and if they were forced to take them up like men are they would not be able to handle it due to being used to an easy street comparison.

              The slut-shaming double standards isn't a double standard. I'm not a fan of slut-shaming but I'll explain why people react differently to men and women having a lot of sexual partners. It is far hard for a man to have a lot of sexual partners and it's easy for a woman to get a lot of sexual partners. That's why.

              My opinion is not very easily proven false and I have demonstrated that. So far you've not been able to give me any legitimate examples except for one (periods) and I'd like to hear if you have any examples. If you can't give me examples then you haven't been able to easily prove my point wrong.

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        • They're talking about the social expectations not biological.
          And since your still not a biological women you can't speak on the experiences of actual women. Only your experience of being trans which is different.
          I know I'm weaker than the average guy, but who cares?! It doesn't bother me at all, that's just biology. And women lie more often than men, since naturally they like to grab attention (Instagram, photoshop, plastic surgery and social media in general is a good example). They even lie about their age more often than men.

          Feminism isn't need in 1st world countries like it is in 3rd world ones. 3rd wave femnism has done nothing for me or any other female I know in my life. 1st wave femnism already accomplished ending all legal inequalities women had with men.

          People trust the opinion of different types of people on different things. For example people trust women more with children than men. And I choose female interior designers over men. People are allowed to have preference even when they're looking for an opinion on something.

          As an actual female and biological women I agree with OP.
          But men can't handle biological experience of women and women can't handle the social expectations of men.

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          • My experiences are different yea however I'm speaking from a stance if observation. And considering I pass to most people. Hell even my boss who has access to my paper work was suprised. So I get treated like biological woman ny most people cause they think I am one -snaps fingers- and yea socially men and women are equal as well

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            • I never said women and men aren't equally socially. I said most women would struggle to meet social expectations of men. For example most of my female friends and family members don't want to be the bread winner and there are more sugar daddies than sugar mamas. That's one example because I want to keep this short as possible.


              Your experience is definitely different biologically and socially as well. Since it's taboo for you to play against actual women in sports, your biological male body is stronger on average than a females.
              You can't enter female prisons easily either; they give them the option of male prision or isolation, because a "transwomen" had raped a couple of female inmates, it was horrific. Plus for everyone's safety people should continuely be seperated by sex in prisons for everyone's saftey; since there are people who will want to shank people in prison just for being another race, so same goes for being trans.
              You didn't grow up as a "women" so you're gonna have different views on the "women" life compared to females who are straight up females forever and up till they die. And the biological things women go through do have a level of effect on their social experience. Having periods goes along with PMS symptoms and pain which effects how we interact social and depending on the person and extremities period pain or nausea.
              Being a homeless women socially is harder, you won't have any income for pap smears, tampons for periods, more susceptible to rape living on the street, unwanted pregnancies because of lack of condoms or rape and etc.
              Full on real lesbians do not want to date trans, they're only attracted to real vaginas. Since it's sexuality not "generality". My lesbian friend got annoyed when a transwomen was hitting on them and they politely told them they weren't interested and when asked why they told them they're a lesbian which means they don't find penises attractive. And transwomen overreacted and called them transphobic and left the party. But thank goodness my circle of friends didn't agree and ignored it and kept partying.


              Women don't need to pass to be called a women, meanwhile you apparently pass most of the time but not all the time. And when you don't pass that person gives you a totally different social experience, which biological females would never get. Also alot of people can identify trans from biological women, expecially women but men get tricked more often. But there's a limit of things surgery and drugs can change on the male body, even I could tell Blair White was a biological male, the hand size, bass in the voice, wide shoulders and rib cage, jutting brow and more gave it away. I don't hate them or invalidate their identity, but Blair White has said themselves they're not the same as biological women, thus they have different experiences.
              Abortion is a important topic all females around the world take part in but you can't talk from your experience about it since you have a biological male body because only women bear children, while trans women are males who wish to live as females, and there's nothing wrong with that as long female spaces are kept seperated by sex. Hence why we have "trans" Infront of the identity label of women because it's a different type of person and totally different experience. And hence again why it's in the LGBT+ and not a front line in the femisnt movement trying to change rights on abortions.


              And there's are much more but think it's gone too long for now.

              So you can talk from your own experience as being trans and I can talk from mine as being a female but just like a white person can't fully understand the experience of a black person or even a mixed person. A trans person who is biologically male can never fully understand the experience of a women and speak on it with validity. I'm stuck in this body till I die there's no way out. Even my trans male friend still gets periods. And he doesn't mind when guys vent about their experiences about being a male, nor does he try to join in or take it away from them.

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  • As a female I have to agree with you that most women would struggle more than men to tolerate the social expectations men have.
    And I also want to say men would struggle with the biological things women go through. So maybe that's why men get alot of shit socially, but I still think it's wrong.
    You can tell men go through a lot more shit socially by just looking at their suicide rate, which is much higher than women.

    I'm only saying this because I disagree with current feminism in 1st world countries, and they hate hearing opposing opinions from girls like me.

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    • That's a pretty fair response.

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  • Why would you want them to have the male experience? There's so much a man can do that they can't.

    Women have to think twice before stepping out. A million things have to be right: their appearance for starters.

    They can't really take off their shirts and enjoy a beer in front of the porch.

    They have to wax off that extra hair on their bodies.

    They can't cuss unless they want to be seen as someone of very low character.

    They can't get drunk as freely.

    They can't really take their own decisions. That's why they hang in herds of other women, or obey their male partners/husbands. That is what gives them natural satisfaction.

    WOMEN ARE INFERIOR, period. Let them have a little fun.

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  • Yeah, dude, I agree. The emotions wouldn't line up; their behaviour would be odd and uncomfortable to most guys. I think many could go the gay guy route though and probably bear it, but not the hetro, standard-man route, and obviously not the gay guy route in non-homo accepting countries

    I think most men couldn't hack it being women in non-Western countries also. You couldn't just go the brash, butch, leza route without being completely ostracized from society.

    Although, I think guys who magically became "pretty" girls, and didn't mind taking dick, would do well enough in Western-society if they could get themselves into social groups in non massively financially deprived area.

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  • Yeah I agree, in a way that no one would be able to handle mostly anyone's experience, expecially if that experience is more difficult.
    That's why you get more grown men physicaly and verbally imitating women then women imitating men.

    Here's a list of things to prove my point:
    -Women get lighter punishments for the same crimes men commit.
    -There's close to zero support for male rape and domestic violence victims
    -Women can report rape and men are laughed at if they do or not taken seriously (Happened to my friend)
    -Females aren't easily labled as pedophiles as males are for both commiting the same discusting act.
    -We got the stupid label of toxic masculinity and no toxic feminity.
    -Gays gets more shit in 3rd world countries compared to lesbians.
    -Fathers have to fight for custody for their children 99% of the time.
    -Women are allowed to abort their children if they don't have the funds or mentality to raise one, but I as a guy don't have the right to opt out of rasing a child and have to pay child support for an unwanted child.
    -Men get murdered more and police brutality and gang violence or any crime happens to males more. Including rape if you include male prisons, guys who had drugs illegaly on them have been raped in prison (I would know happened to a friend)
    -Men are drafted into war, since we're apparently more despensible.
    -I've been told by multiple women that a guys who talks about his emotions is unattractive. But then feminist get pissed that I'm too assertive when I talk about shit.
    -Girls can cry as much as they want, boys and men get called all sorts of things if they show alot of emotion.
    -There's way way much more funding for breast cancer research than prostate and testicular cancer.
    -Male suicide is higher and females live longer, mental health is take more seriously with women.
    -In marriage men are pressured to be bread winners

    I could go on but I'll stop here. Haha

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    • Pretty much. Some people really seem to think women can have all the benefits they have in society while also being seen as the victim's of society and it seems to irk them when someone points out that women do infact have more legal rights than men.

      For example, men do not have a right to genital integrity but women do (Circumcision is legal for boys). Not only this but men do not have the "right" to vote as it is not afforded to them by default, men must sign up to the selective services in order to have that "right" which means it is not a "right" it's a transaction for men to be able to vote, meanwhile women have the "right" to vote by default.
      Women even have the right to opt out of parenthood with abortions and yet men do not have that ability even if there is a method to allow a man to do so that does not strip away a woman's choice to choose.

      There's a mountain of things that can be applied to demonstrate that women simply are put first in western society but due to there now being value in victimhood some women, even some men, want women to have all the benefits they have while maintaining the status of "victim". It really is astounding.

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