I don't know anyone, including people in their 80s, who got covid and said it was anything worse than a bad cold.
Hospitals are always full, hospitals in my area in NY were never overloaded, the original point of the lockdown was 2 weeks to set up extra hospitals for covid patients, which were never used and taken apart again. I've gone past a couple of hospitals in my area (I don't drive really, so its a pain) and none of them have lines out the door of people collapsing in the street like was supposedly happening in China at the beginning of all this. That was the situation they sold us when they started the lockdown. It never happened, anywhere.
Completely destroying every open independent buisiness is causing people to go into debt.
I don't misunderstand statistics. Did polio have 24/7 coverage like this does? Polio was a lot scarier than covid. People back in the 1400s were stupid as fuck, and they knew the plague existed without constant propaganda reminding them. Most people would have no clue covid existed if it wasn't being blasted on repeat for the last 10 months.
Also if you stop watching news media fear porn, and just look at the publically posted numbers, california has way more cases under lockdown than florida does where nobody gives a fuck.
That social security chart is from 2016. That's not supposed to reflect covid, it's the average odds a person has of dying before their next birthday. Throughout the entire thing, the odds of dying are about the same as the CDC death rates from covid by age. People who only have a year to live at any age are most likely not very healthy. To me that similarity suggests only the most extremely unhealthy people REGARDLESS OF AGE are the ones dying from "covid" (A covid death is a death from any cause within 28 days of a positive covid test) Keep in mind, as I've been saying since March, extremely unhealthy 90 year old people didn't get advanced life saving care if they got regular pneumonia before covid happened. Obesity is supposed to be a major contributing factor (which would also fall under extremely poor health) so why aren't we closing fast food places to save lives? Why are there used masks all over the street in my town but no biohazard drops for them like theyd have for used needles?
Anyway, considering covid is unlikely to kill most people, and the government doesn't intervene to prevent other major causes of death, I'd say the reaction is being purposely overblown for the purpose of advancing the political adgendas of the people behind it. I'm not some trump anti-mask dick out there yelling at store workers, but It's pretty troubling to me that the majority of people aren't concerned with the lasting effects of massive government intrusion into peoples lives over a manufactured panic.
I fully understand the impact to business owners. I own 4 small businesses - and every one has been affected by Covid. My latest estimate is that combining all 4 of them I will likely have a net profit of about $600 for 2020 (for the entire year). I don't get any salary from those businesses - I live off of the profits (minus 15% SS taxes which taken from it as I have to pay the employers and the employees combined share); which reduces $600 to $510. About $510 income is tough to live on for the year (and lets just say that we are living a very basic lifestyle right now).
The Pandemic Unemployment Assistance for the self employed is very ineffective at paying you anything: In retrospect; that was not even worth spending 2-3 days of my time doing the paperwork to file for it.
As for death rates: In recent years approximately 2.8 million people died in the USA from all causes (diseases/health issues, accidents, murders, suicides).
So far at least 300,000 additional people have died from Covid from about March to now. There's also about 100,000 higher than normal deaths for reasons that were not well defined - and are likely Covid related (I have heard that most of those are from before there was widespread testing capability for Covid).
So we have more than a 10% increase in the death rate this year(and perhaps approaching 15%) - and attributed to 1 specific disease.
You are correct that hospitals are usually mostly full. The question is for what? A lot of the normal hospital patient load is for elective or non urgent medical procedures that are being addressed in a timely manner. Those almost always have been deferred for much of 2020 - and expected well into 2021 if not 2022 because the hospitals are full of people who are actually sick enough to require urgent hospital treatment from Covid. My wife works in a hospital... She has seen the changes in the patients.
That's a big difference.
Now I'm not saying shut down businesses (and I do believe that some states have gone to far long term); but, if people would just wear masks, wash and sanitize things, and use common sense on not clustering and gathering in large close groups we could have cut the increased death rate about in half; and freed up the medical community to take care of at least the worst of those other issues that have been deferred (and how many deaths, lot jobs, and long term health effects will occur from not taking care of "non-urgent" issues in a timely manner).
We can disagree on what should be done. But you cannot claim the death rate charts from 2017 apply to 2020. Actual facts are facts.
Nor do I believe that you can claim that we should just ignore it. Its having a real health impact on many people (and not just the elderly and weak); and is delaying needed medical treatment for millions of others.
Well there you go, empty hospitals not treating cancer patients because of covid is a bad thing.
The whole problem with calculating the death numbers is they don't account for how many of the dead people were severely sick and dying anyway. Like I said, the deaths from covid seem to be about the same percentage in every age group as people who would have died anyway. Hospice patients are counted as covid deaths. Positive test and getting hit by a bus 25 days later is counted as a covid death.
As for "taking it seriously," I'm not sure what you mean. I wear a "face covering" if I go buy cigarettes and stand a little further back in line than I normally would. Other than that, you're basically saying respecting the severity of the virus will make it go away, like appeasing an angry god or something.
My only point is this situation is being used to serve political agendas. Very sick old people are put into hospice with regular pneumonia in normal times.
The mask is an idiotic line to draw and Im not even arguing how horrible that is, but when they give a bunch of rubbers to an african village with an AIDS problem they teach them how to use them, they don't just generically post "Wear a dick covering" everywhere and tell people bandanas are good enough.
That's the problem. I see everyone in my town wearing masks to the point of driving with them on or just walking alone on the street. The blame on some imaginary people who are all licking each others tonsils conveniently makes it everyone's fault for not following the guidelines instead of the obvious conclusion that the guidelines aren't working. You're saying I need to take it more seriously, when all I'm doing is following the dumb rules and not living in fear.
What older dude said is correct. I find it really weird that people can't wrap their minds around the idea that some people including myself live in a multi generational house hold.
Frankly I'm sic to death of hearing about how my chances of dieing from covid are 'minimal' when that isn't the point. I'm a full time frontline employee and live in caretaker for two grandparents, one who lost half her lung to childhood pnumonia and another who is a life long smoker. Why is it fair that I have to go home every night knowing I'm doing everything I can to protect them but others just can't be bothered to?
I would hate for another world war to happen anytime in the near future. Imagine how many people would just be blown up because they couldn't stand taking shelter and being inconvenienced for a year.
This is a "war" like the war on drugs or the war on terrorism. Look how well we're winning those.
You all keep saying this whole "other people cant be bothered to" nonsense. What should I be doing then? I wear a mask to go buy food or smokes or whatever, but I think this covid thing is a colossal psyop just the same.
What exactly would you consider a "victory" here? Zero cases? That's never going to happen. The "Vaccine" doesn't actually prevent you from getting sick so we all have to wear masks and distance. That's not a way to live forever. There's absolutely no goal anymore. Just rolling lockdowns forever. Are you comfortable living like this forever?
Personally a push to have all socialization done over the internet at the same time as all these social media websites are starting to heavily censor any kind of wrong think is scarier than the virus.
Man it's not even worth arguing with you because you don't understand how vaccines even work or what the point of useing them is.
You also don't seem to understand that social media sites are privately run companies and as such they can change their ToS whenever they please. Unless the government is censoring you free speech doesnt apply. If you go into a business and start screaming obscenities and are asked to leave it is not censorship. The same applies to internet places like facebook and twitter. You are in somebody else's house when you use those sites and you have to play by their rules.
Once the vaccine has prolifirated the population there won't be need for constant lockdowns. I'm not sure why you think they will last forever but it sounds like you fell into a conspiracy hole and your having trouble getting out.
Dude, you don't understand that forcing everyone to socialize through privately controlled mediums that can censor anything they don't like is literally the deliberate destruction of free speech? When basically all places where people go to talk to each other are being purposefully run out of buisines?
You haven't really made any argument here but you're all over my shit on here. Almost like you're stalking me with your one day old account. You didn't answer the question.
What is a victory condition here
Because They've said vaccines aren't ending masking and distancing.
What is the victory condition that would allow people to go to a fully packed concert venue again?
Is it 2 weeks til NY can set up hospitals like it was in march? Or until we have to get constant flu shots to get on a bus? You actually think the government of the world are doing all this to help you? You poor, naieve child.
I don't believe in these restrictions
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I don't know anyone, including people in their 80s, who got covid and said it was anything worse than a bad cold.
Hospitals are always full, hospitals in my area in NY were never overloaded, the original point of the lockdown was 2 weeks to set up extra hospitals for covid patients, which were never used and taken apart again. I've gone past a couple of hospitals in my area (I don't drive really, so its a pain) and none of them have lines out the door of people collapsing in the street like was supposedly happening in China at the beginning of all this. That was the situation they sold us when they started the lockdown. It never happened, anywhere.
Completely destroying every open independent buisiness is causing people to go into debt.
I don't misunderstand statistics. Did polio have 24/7 coverage like this does? Polio was a lot scarier than covid. People back in the 1400s were stupid as fuck, and they knew the plague existed without constant propaganda reminding them. Most people would have no clue covid existed if it wasn't being blasted on repeat for the last 10 months.
Also if you stop watching news media fear porn, and just look at the publically posted numbers, california has way more cases under lockdown than florida does where nobody gives a fuck.
That social security chart is from 2016. That's not supposed to reflect covid, it's the average odds a person has of dying before their next birthday. Throughout the entire thing, the odds of dying are about the same as the CDC death rates from covid by age. People who only have a year to live at any age are most likely not very healthy. To me that similarity suggests only the most extremely unhealthy people REGARDLESS OF AGE are the ones dying from "covid" (A covid death is a death from any cause within 28 days of a positive covid test) Keep in mind, as I've been saying since March, extremely unhealthy 90 year old people didn't get advanced life saving care if they got regular pneumonia before covid happened. Obesity is supposed to be a major contributing factor (which would also fall under extremely poor health) so why aren't we closing fast food places to save lives? Why are there used masks all over the street in my town but no biohazard drops for them like theyd have for used needles?
Anyway, considering covid is unlikely to kill most people, and the government doesn't intervene to prevent other major causes of death, I'd say the reaction is being purposely overblown for the purpose of advancing the political adgendas of the people behind it. I'm not some trump anti-mask dick out there yelling at store workers, but It's pretty troubling to me that the majority of people aren't concerned with the lasting effects of massive government intrusion into peoples lives over a manufactured panic.
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olderdude-xx
2 years ago
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I fully understand the impact to business owners. I own 4 small businesses - and every one has been affected by Covid. My latest estimate is that combining all 4 of them I will likely have a net profit of about $600 for 2020 (for the entire year). I don't get any salary from those businesses - I live off of the profits (minus 15% SS taxes which taken from it as I have to pay the employers and the employees combined share); which reduces $600 to $510. About $510 income is tough to live on for the year (and lets just say that we are living a very basic lifestyle right now).
The Pandemic Unemployment Assistance for the self employed is very ineffective at paying you anything: In retrospect; that was not even worth spending 2-3 days of my time doing the paperwork to file for it.
As for death rates: In recent years approximately 2.8 million people died in the USA from all causes (diseases/health issues, accidents, murders, suicides).
So far at least 300,000 additional people have died from Covid from about March to now. There's also about 100,000 higher than normal deaths for reasons that were not well defined - and are likely Covid related (I have heard that most of those are from before there was widespread testing capability for Covid).
So we have more than a 10% increase in the death rate this year(and perhaps approaching 15%) - and attributed to 1 specific disease.
You are correct that hospitals are usually mostly full. The question is for what? A lot of the normal hospital patient load is for elective or non urgent medical procedures that are being addressed in a timely manner. Those almost always have been deferred for much of 2020 - and expected well into 2021 if not 2022 because the hospitals are full of people who are actually sick enough to require urgent hospital treatment from Covid. My wife works in a hospital... She has seen the changes in the patients.
That's a big difference.
Now I'm not saying shut down businesses (and I do believe that some states have gone to far long term); but, if people would just wear masks, wash and sanitize things, and use common sense on not clustering and gathering in large close groups we could have cut the increased death rate about in half; and freed up the medical community to take care of at least the worst of those other issues that have been deferred (and how many deaths, lot jobs, and long term health effects will occur from not taking care of "non-urgent" issues in a timely manner).
We can disagree on what should be done. But you cannot claim the death rate charts from 2017 apply to 2020. Actual facts are facts.
Nor do I believe that you can claim that we should just ignore it. Its having a real health impact on many people (and not just the elderly and weak); and is delaying needed medical treatment for millions of others.
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SmokeEverything
2 years ago
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Wooliumthethird
2 years ago
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Well there you go, empty hospitals not treating cancer patients because of covid is a bad thing.
The whole problem with calculating the death numbers is they don't account for how many of the dead people were severely sick and dying anyway. Like I said, the deaths from covid seem to be about the same percentage in every age group as people who would have died anyway. Hospice patients are counted as covid deaths. Positive test and getting hit by a bus 25 days later is counted as a covid death.
As for "taking it seriously," I'm not sure what you mean. I wear a "face covering" if I go buy cigarettes and stand a little further back in line than I normally would. Other than that, you're basically saying respecting the severity of the virus will make it go away, like appeasing an angry god or something.
My only point is this situation is being used to serve political agendas. Very sick old people are put into hospice with regular pneumonia in normal times.
The mask is an idiotic line to draw and Im not even arguing how horrible that is, but when they give a bunch of rubbers to an african village with an AIDS problem they teach them how to use them, they don't just generically post "Wear a dick covering" everywhere and tell people bandanas are good enough.
That's the problem. I see everyone in my town wearing masks to the point of driving with them on or just walking alone on the street. The blame on some imaginary people who are all licking each others tonsils conveniently makes it everyone's fault for not following the guidelines instead of the obvious conclusion that the guidelines aren't working. You're saying I need to take it more seriously, when all I'm doing is following the dumb rules and not living in fear.
What older dude said is correct. I find it really weird that people can't wrap their minds around the idea that some people including myself live in a multi generational house hold.
Frankly I'm sic to death of hearing about how my chances of dieing from covid are 'minimal' when that isn't the point. I'm a full time frontline employee and live in caretaker for two grandparents, one who lost half her lung to childhood pnumonia and another who is a life long smoker. Why is it fair that I have to go home every night knowing I'm doing everything I can to protect them but others just can't be bothered to?
I would hate for another world war to happen anytime in the near future. Imagine how many people would just be blown up because they couldn't stand taking shelter and being inconvenienced for a year.
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SmokeEverything
2 years ago
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This is a "war" like the war on drugs or the war on terrorism. Look how well we're winning those.
You all keep saying this whole "other people cant be bothered to" nonsense. What should I be doing then? I wear a mask to go buy food or smokes or whatever, but I think this covid thing is a colossal psyop just the same.
What exactly would you consider a "victory" here? Zero cases? That's never going to happen. The "Vaccine" doesn't actually prevent you from getting sick so we all have to wear masks and distance. That's not a way to live forever. There's absolutely no goal anymore. Just rolling lockdowns forever. Are you comfortable living like this forever?
Personally a push to have all socialization done over the internet at the same time as all these social media websites are starting to heavily censor any kind of wrong think is scarier than the virus.
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Wooliumthethird
2 years ago
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Man it's not even worth arguing with you because you don't understand how vaccines even work or what the point of useing them is.
You also don't seem to understand that social media sites are privately run companies and as such they can change their ToS whenever they please. Unless the government is censoring you free speech doesnt apply. If you go into a business and start screaming obscenities and are asked to leave it is not censorship. The same applies to internet places like facebook and twitter. You are in somebody else's house when you use those sites and you have to play by their rules.
Once the vaccine has prolifirated the population there won't be need for constant lockdowns. I'm not sure why you think they will last forever but it sounds like you fell into a conspiracy hole and your having trouble getting out.
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SmokeEverything
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Dude, you don't understand that forcing everyone to socialize through privately controlled mediums that can censor anything they don't like is literally the deliberate destruction of free speech? When basically all places where people go to talk to each other are being purposefully run out of buisines?
You haven't really made any argument here but you're all over my shit on here. Almost like you're stalking me with your one day old account. You didn't answer the question.
What is a victory condition here
Because They've said vaccines aren't ending masking and distancing.
What is the victory condition that would allow people to go to a fully packed concert venue again?
Is it 2 weeks til NY can set up hospitals like it was in march? Or until we have to get constant flu shots to get on a bus? You actually think the government of the world are doing all this to help you? You poor, naieve child.