I appreciate that cracked isn't exactly the best source in the world, but I think they make some good points. I'm actually a firm believer in masculinity-in-crisis - I think the patriarchy is as damning and repressive of men and their development as is it of women. However, I do not think that a men's rights movement is necessary. I don't know where you're from, but if you're from the Uk, I'd liken it to the whole 'UKIP isn't a racist party' line - perhaps it isn't intrinsically racist, but it attracts so many racists and crazies that you really have to wonder what it is that these people find appealing about it. I'd say the same of the men's rights movement - it attracts so many overt misogynists that it's hard to take it serious. And like UKIP, it's becoming more and more popular. I find it worrying.
I wouldn't take any of what they claimed as worthwhile to read. I got through the second or third one when I read it my first time and I just couldn't go through the mental torture of reading all of it, only the rest of the title points. It doesn't even deserve the respect to be read in the first place, it's just that absurd.
I don't believe in the theory of patriarchy.
I do believe it is needed given the issues males face in society and the reluctance for anybody to try and sort them, especially the group claiming to be fighting for equality for everyone, which is feminism. Feminism only really goes after male issues if it is something that is tied in with female issues or if it is fixed with little effort on the way to helping women, things like gender roles. If feminism was looking out for men as they claim, the fact that men can still be drafted to this day, something that men have had tied to them since the early days of feminism, would of already been addressed and fixed, yet it isn't. Same goes with male circumcision.
I tend to not take the MRAs are misogynists speech too seriously considerng how loose the definition of it is in the minds of feminists to the point that disagreeing with feminism or even criticizing a woman makes them a misogynist. Do some misogynists exist? Sure, however I wouldn't say they make the majority in the group or in support of it, or the ones that represent the group. I would also say that even if this was the case, these misogynists don't hold much threat to stopping feminist freedom of speech like feminists try to do on a constant basis with the MRM, so I would say feminists would be more of a problem against equality.
The MRM isn't a threat to anyone, they have displayed less worrying behavior than feminists where claiming feminism is acceptable but the MRM shouldn't be due to some implied threat is ridiculous.
I stopped reading after 'I don't believe in the theory of patriarchy'.
I never enter a debate unless I'm open to having my mind changed. I'm not, and I'm sure you're not either, so there's really no point having this conversation. I don't mean that in a critical way, I'm sure you have many reasons for your belief systems, but I also have many reasons for mine and they aren't going to change.
I am open to having my beliefs changed if information to suggest it dictates it...Not to insult (perhaps criticize) but wouldn't you be openy admitting to being close-minded?
I'm not admitting to being close-minded. More, that this is an issue close to my heart which I've researched (in fact I did my undergraduate dissertation on masculinity - not feminism, I hope you'll note)and I've formulated my beliefs based on that research, as well as my own personal experiences. Therefore I'm not saying that your input isn't valid, or that I can't learn from you, but just that this is a topic which is so complex and so convoluted that I just can't imagine it playing out productively over the internet. If we were face to face I'd be perfectly happy to discuss it, but I hope you understand why I just can't see reaching any kind of valuable conclusion (for either one of us) online.
How do you feel about Men's Right Activism?
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http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-uncomfortable-truths-behind-mens-rights-movement/
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[Old Memory]
9 years ago
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I'm sorry, but I seen that article before and it is just unbelievably moronic. It's shaming tactics and nothing more.
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bleach_baby
9 years ago
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I appreciate that cracked isn't exactly the best source in the world, but I think they make some good points. I'm actually a firm believer in masculinity-in-crisis - I think the patriarchy is as damning and repressive of men and their development as is it of women. However, I do not think that a men's rights movement is necessary. I don't know where you're from, but if you're from the Uk, I'd liken it to the whole 'UKIP isn't a racist party' line - perhaps it isn't intrinsically racist, but it attracts so many racists and crazies that you really have to wonder what it is that these people find appealing about it. I'd say the same of the men's rights movement - it attracts so many overt misogynists that it's hard to take it serious. And like UKIP, it's becoming more and more popular. I find it worrying.
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I wouldn't take any of what they claimed as worthwhile to read. I got through the second or third one when I read it my first time and I just couldn't go through the mental torture of reading all of it, only the rest of the title points. It doesn't even deserve the respect to be read in the first place, it's just that absurd.
I don't believe in the theory of patriarchy.
I do believe it is needed given the issues males face in society and the reluctance for anybody to try and sort them, especially the group claiming to be fighting for equality for everyone, which is feminism. Feminism only really goes after male issues if it is something that is tied in with female issues or if it is fixed with little effort on the way to helping women, things like gender roles. If feminism was looking out for men as they claim, the fact that men can still be drafted to this day, something that men have had tied to them since the early days of feminism, would of already been addressed and fixed, yet it isn't. Same goes with male circumcision.
I tend to not take the MRAs are misogynists speech too seriously considerng how loose the definition of it is in the minds of feminists to the point that disagreeing with feminism or even criticizing a woman makes them a misogynist. Do some misogynists exist? Sure, however I wouldn't say they make the majority in the group or in support of it, or the ones that represent the group. I would also say that even if this was the case, these misogynists don't hold much threat to stopping feminist freedom of speech like feminists try to do on a constant basis with the MRM, so I would say feminists would be more of a problem against equality.
The MRM isn't a threat to anyone, they have displayed less worrying behavior than feminists where claiming feminism is acceptable but the MRM shouldn't be due to some implied threat is ridiculous.
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bleach_baby
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I stopped reading after 'I don't believe in the theory of patriarchy'.
I never enter a debate unless I'm open to having my mind changed. I'm not, and I'm sure you're not either, so there's really no point having this conversation. I don't mean that in a critical way, I'm sure you have many reasons for your belief systems, but I also have many reasons for mine and they aren't going to change.
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I am open to having my beliefs changed if information to suggest it dictates it...Not to insult (perhaps criticize) but wouldn't you be openy admitting to being close-minded?
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I'm not admitting to being close-minded. More, that this is an issue close to my heart which I've researched (in fact I did my undergraduate dissertation on masculinity - not feminism, I hope you'll note)and I've formulated my beliefs based on that research, as well as my own personal experiences. Therefore I'm not saying that your input isn't valid, or that I can't learn from you, but just that this is a topic which is so complex and so convoluted that I just can't imagine it playing out productively over the internet. If we were face to face I'd be perfectly happy to discuss it, but I hope you understand why I just can't see reaching any kind of valuable conclusion (for either one of us) online.