I mentioned before that people mostly use logic to justify their emotions. But I never thought I'd get such a clear example:
"If you really wanted to apply logic to the Kavanaugh/Ford situation, you would look at the fact that Kavanaugh was caught lying under oath multiple times and while Ford was as honest as she could be every time she spoke."
"The reality is that those women were telling the truth. Anybody can see that. Nobody actually believes they were lying. But your emotional response, anger over the nerve of these women to stand up to such powerful men, causes you to lash out with baseless accusations and twisted logic in a vein attempt to discredit them and discourage other women from coming forward. You expect it to work, just like you expect your attempts to manipulate readers into believing you're not thinking emotionally will work."
To put it simply: we live in different realities.
If you truly and honestly believe Ford and the other women were telling the truth, then we are watching such different movies on the same screen that any conversation we have will go nowhere.
If you truly believe that a 60-year old, professional woman sounds and acts like this during a congressional hearing then you are in the middle of a full-blown hallucination:
https://youtu.be/uGxr1VQ2dPI?t=380
This is emotional manipulation 101. If you are a man, factcheck, then you will suffer at the hands of female manipulation for the rest of your life. If you are a woman, then you need to become more self-aware. Women are not stupid. Women, when motivated, can and will lie especially when the stakes are high.
There are those out there (maybe even yourself) who have truly convinced themselves that Trump is a dictator, or the next Hitler. Any lie or action against such a regime is justified. It's this kind of thinking that let the prison guards of Auschwitz burn jews alive.
The only way to break out your hallucination bubble, that I can think of, is to talk to a Trump voter in real life. Online won't cut it. Talk to them without the impression that they are evil, foolish, or being tricked. Try this and you may gain a different perspective.
This is a perfect example of how people will project their own feelings onto other people. You convince yourself that the women are lying because that's what you would do to your political opponents. You convince yourself that the opposing side are trying to manipulate you because you want to manipulate the opposing side.
You should really stop making so many assumptions about who I am and what I know. I work with several Trump voters every day and I have many more in my family that I interact with every day. I know at least as many people who voted for Trump as didn't, and I've never once called a single one of them evil or foolish. I have all the perspective I need. I know exactly why they voted for him and why they like it, it's not as well kept a secret as you want it to be. Like I said at the beginning of this conversation, it's fear mongering. He makes people like you fear people who don't look or sound like you. It's that fear that justifies any actions taken against them. It's that fear that justifies what happened to Jews in Auschwitz.
Time will tell if he's the next Hitler - there's no denying how similar at the same respective points of their reigns - but there's no doubt that he uses the same tactics Hitler used. Not just Hitler, there are hundreds of other dictators and cult leaders who have used the exact same tactics all around the world. Hitler is a commonly cited example because he's probably the most well known and it took it to the most extreme, but even non politicians like Jim Jones and Charles Manson used the same tactics to manipulate people. Hitler is also used as an example because we know that's where Trump learned them, by closely studying Mein Kampf.
Yes, body language matters. It's no secret that people(men in particular, old men especially) are easily intimidating by strong, confident women. She knows that she can't be obnoxious, loud, angry, and defiant like Brett Kavanaugh was. We'd have to see a lot more of her body language when she's not in that setting to know how uncommon it is for her, but there was nothing in her body language that indicated she wasn't telling the truth, unlike Kavanaugh, whose words and body language both indicated that he was lying throughout his testimony. Watch him yell, scream, evade questions, turn questions back on the panel. If you truly believe that's how an honest person who's done nothing wrong acts, then you are completely detached from reality.
Go talk to some women. In real life, not online. Talk to them without the preconceived notion that they're evil, manipulative liars. Maybe then you'll open your eyes. Until then, I really don't think we have anything else to talk about. Nothing I can say here will help you.
Save me and yourself some time: stop trying to read my mind, or Trump's mind, or white men's minds, or conservative Christian minds. Because you aren't a mindreader, factcheck. When you pretend to know someone's intent your emotions can and will take over. You will see shadows were there are none. You will, in fact, hallucinate.
I never said that women are evil, manipulative liars, nor did I ever intend to say they were. I said that where there is motivation to lie some people will lie. Some modern feminists honestly believe women are somehow too virtuous, or that they must otherwise always be trusted, and always right when it comes to rape accusations.
You seem to think I am somehow afraid of women gaining power or standing or something. This is all mind-reading. This is a habit you need to break, or you're going to remain inside a bubble.
Do me a favor, bubsy, and reread the entire conversation. You’ll see that you’re the only one attempting to mindread. This is exactly what I was talking about when I say you’re projecting.
While you’re rereading them, you may notice how I carefully worded parts of my comment to mirror yours exactly. Note your reaction to those parts of my comment.
For example, you told me to talk to Trump voters without believing that they’re evil and foolish, despite the fact that I never said any Trump voters are evil or foolish. I never said anything about them at all, in fact. I rewrote that sentence word for word, simply swapping Trump voters for women and foolish for manipulative. Now, you’ve said a lot more to indicate that you believe women are manipulative than I’ve said about Trump voters, so my version was far more valid, but the point still stands. When I did exactly what you did, you falsely accuse me of trying to be a mind reader. I did this intentionally to prove a point, and it worked perfectly. If you go back far enough, you’ll see I’ve done this multiple times and it worked every time.
You don’t have anything to offer to this conversation. You continually ignore the substance of everything I write, baselessly attack me personally instead, and bring lies and wildly misleading statements. Nobody ever said every single rape accusation is true. The fact is, though, that roughly 98% of them are. Just ask the FBI.
Come talk to me again when you get out of your hallucination bubble. Happy holidays.
Have you ever wept after a Presidential election result?
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I mentioned before that people mostly use logic to justify their emotions. But I never thought I'd get such a clear example:
"If you really wanted to apply logic to the Kavanaugh/Ford situation, you would look at the fact that Kavanaugh was caught lying under oath multiple times and while Ford was as honest as she could be every time she spoke."
"The reality is that those women were telling the truth. Anybody can see that. Nobody actually believes they were lying. But your emotional response, anger over the nerve of these women to stand up to such powerful men, causes you to lash out with baseless accusations and twisted logic in a vein attempt to discredit them and discourage other women from coming forward. You expect it to work, just like you expect your attempts to manipulate readers into believing you're not thinking emotionally will work."
To put it simply: we live in different realities.
If you truly and honestly believe Ford and the other women were telling the truth, then we are watching such different movies on the same screen that any conversation we have will go nowhere.
If you truly believe that a 60-year old, professional woman sounds and acts like this during a congressional hearing then you are in the middle of a full-blown hallucination:
https://youtu.be/uGxr1VQ2dPI?t=380
This is emotional manipulation 101. If you are a man, factcheck, then you will suffer at the hands of female manipulation for the rest of your life. If you are a woman, then you need to become more self-aware. Women are not stupid. Women, when motivated, can and will lie especially when the stakes are high.
There are those out there (maybe even yourself) who have truly convinced themselves that Trump is a dictator, or the next Hitler. Any lie or action against such a regime is justified. It's this kind of thinking that let the prison guards of Auschwitz burn jews alive.
The only way to break out your hallucination bubble, that I can think of, is to talk to a Trump voter in real life. Online won't cut it. Talk to them without the impression that they are evil, foolish, or being tricked. Try this and you may gain a different perspective.
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factcheck
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This is a perfect example of how people will project their own feelings onto other people. You convince yourself that the women are lying because that's what you would do to your political opponents. You convince yourself that the opposing side are trying to manipulate you because you want to manipulate the opposing side.
You should really stop making so many assumptions about who I am and what I know. I work with several Trump voters every day and I have many more in my family that I interact with every day. I know at least as many people who voted for Trump as didn't, and I've never once called a single one of them evil or foolish. I have all the perspective I need. I know exactly why they voted for him and why they like it, it's not as well kept a secret as you want it to be. Like I said at the beginning of this conversation, it's fear mongering. He makes people like you fear people who don't look or sound like you. It's that fear that justifies any actions taken against them. It's that fear that justifies what happened to Jews in Auschwitz.
Time will tell if he's the next Hitler - there's no denying how similar at the same respective points of their reigns - but there's no doubt that he uses the same tactics Hitler used. Not just Hitler, there are hundreds of other dictators and cult leaders who have used the exact same tactics all around the world. Hitler is a commonly cited example because he's probably the most well known and it took it to the most extreme, but even non politicians like Jim Jones and Charles Manson used the same tactics to manipulate people. Hitler is also used as an example because we know that's where Trump learned them, by closely studying Mein Kampf.
Yes, body language matters. It's no secret that people(men in particular, old men especially) are easily intimidating by strong, confident women. She knows that she can't be obnoxious, loud, angry, and defiant like Brett Kavanaugh was. We'd have to see a lot more of her body language when she's not in that setting to know how uncommon it is for her, but there was nothing in her body language that indicated she wasn't telling the truth, unlike Kavanaugh, whose words and body language both indicated that he was lying throughout his testimony. Watch him yell, scream, evade questions, turn questions back on the panel. If you truly believe that's how an honest person who's done nothing wrong acts, then you are completely detached from reality.
Go talk to some women. In real life, not online. Talk to them without the preconceived notion that they're evil, manipulative liars. Maybe then you'll open your eyes. Until then, I really don't think we have anything else to talk about. Nothing I can say here will help you.
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bubsy
4 years ago
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Save me and yourself some time: stop trying to read my mind, or Trump's mind, or white men's minds, or conservative Christian minds. Because you aren't a mindreader, factcheck. When you pretend to know someone's intent your emotions can and will take over. You will see shadows were there are none. You will, in fact, hallucinate.
I never said that women are evil, manipulative liars, nor did I ever intend to say they were. I said that where there is motivation to lie some people will lie. Some modern feminists honestly believe women are somehow too virtuous, or that they must otherwise always be trusted, and always right when it comes to rape accusations.
Yet the facts tell us a different story:
https://www.lifezette.com/2018/11/woman-who-claimed-brett-kavanaugh-raped-her-now-admits-she-never-met-him/
You seem to think I am somehow afraid of women gaining power or standing or something. This is all mind-reading. This is a habit you need to break, or you're going to remain inside a bubble.
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factcheck
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Do me a favor, bubsy, and reread the entire conversation. You’ll see that you’re the only one attempting to mindread. This is exactly what I was talking about when I say you’re projecting.
While you’re rereading them, you may notice how I carefully worded parts of my comment to mirror yours exactly. Note your reaction to those parts of my comment.
For example, you told me to talk to Trump voters without believing that they’re evil and foolish, despite the fact that I never said any Trump voters are evil or foolish. I never said anything about them at all, in fact. I rewrote that sentence word for word, simply swapping Trump voters for women and foolish for manipulative. Now, you’ve said a lot more to indicate that you believe women are manipulative than I’ve said about Trump voters, so my version was far more valid, but the point still stands. When I did exactly what you did, you falsely accuse me of trying to be a mind reader. I did this intentionally to prove a point, and it worked perfectly. If you go back far enough, you’ll see I’ve done this multiple times and it worked every time.
You don’t have anything to offer to this conversation. You continually ignore the substance of everything I write, baselessly attack me personally instead, and bring lies and wildly misleading statements. Nobody ever said every single rape accusation is true. The fact is, though, that roughly 98% of them are. Just ask the FBI.
Come talk to me again when you get out of your hallucination bubble. Happy holidays.