Do you recall the dozens of women who claimed Donald Trump sexually assaulted them just prior to the presidential election? What happened to those women, and why didn't they follow-up on their claims? Even if he won--especially since he won--why wouldn't they see justice done?
A rapist in the whitehouse?!
It's because it was all theatrics. The claims were false, made to elicit an emotional response to persuade voters. This is one of 1000s of persuasive techniques that occured during that election. They may not be logical but they work on an emotional, basic level, and enough combined is enough to sway moderate voters.
We humans feel first and think second. We are emotional beings who mostly use logic to justify our emotions. The only way to understand how manipulated you are being is to understand how emotional you are getting. If the news has you in tears, beware and take a serious step back.
Do you remember when Donald Trump was caught on tape admitting to doing exactly what they said he did and bragging about getting away with it? Do you remember when he ex wife said he raped her and he didn’t deny it, only falsely claimed that it’s not rape if the couple is married? Do you remember all of the other countless statements he’s publicly made that show how misogynistic he is?
You fear a society where men are held responsible for treating women poorly. That’s why you defend men who treat women poorly, that’s why you convince yourself that their claims must be false despite overwhelming evidence.
Again, you are the one being manipulated. I know you won’t see it now, maybe you never will, but the fact remains that all of human history shows people like Trump gain support by exploiting fear and the people who oppose them have always proven to be on the right side.
"You fear a society where men are held responsible for treating women poorly. That’s why you defend men who treat women poorly, that’s why you convince yourself that their claims must be false despite overwhelming evidence."
I don't recall ever saying this. Hell, check my recent comment history and you'll see how anti-Sharia Law I am. What I'm trying to do and what you're failing to do, is to take the emotion out of my argument and look at the pure logic around it. Why would the dozens of women who made rape claims against Trump prior to the election not follow up on those accusations?
Those in the media who are anti-Trump would absolutely jump at the opportunity and make sure their voices were heard. It would be a scandal that'd make Bill Clinton's bj in the oval office look like a joke. Yet this hasn't happened. The only logical conclusion I can find is that those accusations were false to begin with, and used only as an emotional manipulation tool for the election.
Speaking of emotional manipulation and rape claims, why aren't we hearing any more about Christine Blasey Ford? Why isn't she, her attournies and the Democrats pursuing her rape claim still? You haven't heard a word out of her since Kavanaugh got on the Supreme Court. If the claims were legitimate, what would it matter if Kavanaugh was on the Supreme Court or not?
The reality is, Ford's claim was only used as an emotional manipulation tool, the same as all those rape claims against Trump. Now that the election/nomination is over, the rape claims are no longer pursued. Weird how that works, isn't it?
Do me a favor, factcheck, and either change your screenname or start thinking more logically.
For all of your talk about taking out emotions and thinking logically, your post sure has a whole lot of emotion and not much logic. Your belief that women would continue to follow up on their accusations is an emotional one, not a logical one. Logically, if they were going to pursue a criminal case, they would've done that already. So, logically, why are they bringing it up now? Logically, to stop their rapist or attempted rapist from becoming President or a Supreme Court justice. Once the election is over and the Senate votes, logic dictates there's nothing else for them to pursue. It's over. It's weird that you would think they would continue to pursue it at this point.
Speaking of logic, why did you completely ignore the majority of my post? Specifically, where I pointed out that Donald Trump has admitted to doing what those women said he did and bragged about getting away with it. Logically, that shows you know that they're telling the truth. If you really wanted to apply logic to the Kavanaugh/Ford situation, you would look at the fact that Kavanaugh was caught lying under oath multiple times and while Ford was as honest as she could be every time she spoke. Logically, that tells you she has more credibility that he does. If you wanted to apply logic, you would look at the fact that the investigation made no attempt to actually investigate the allegations by talking to anybody who knew both of them at the time, including the one person who could directly support Ford's claim and several other people who could make or support similar claims. If you were thinking logically, the only logical conclusion is that they wanted to hide the truth. But you aren't thinking logically, you're thinking emotionally.
The reality is that those women were telling the truth. Anybody can see that. Nobody actually believes they were lying. But your emotional response, anger over the nerve of these women to stand up to such powerful men, causes you to lash out with baseless accusations and twisted logic in a vein attempt to discredit them and discourage other women from coming forward. You expect it to work, just like you expect your attempts to manipulate readers into believing you're not thinking emotionally will work.
And finally, since we're on the topic of logic, it's illogical to be anti-Sharia Law yet also be a conservative, which your comment history shows you are. There's no substantive difference between Sharia Law and the "religious freedom" that conservatives preach. The only difference between the Middle East and the United States is that there are more secularists in the United States preventing conservative Christians from implementing the exact same anti-women and anti-gay laws they have in the Middle East. This is another fact that you can't deny, because it wasn't that long ago that conservative Christians had a lot more control over the US government and those laws were in place...women couldn't work, go to school, vote, or drive in the not too distant past...gay people had no rights in the very recent past...and conservative Christians weren't the ones who changed the laws. They've fought it every step of the way. You would know all of this if you looked at it logically, but your fear of people who don't look or sound like you clouds your judgment and politicians like Trump manipulate you and exploit that fear in their favor.
I mentioned before that people mostly use logic to justify their emotions. But I never thought I'd get such a clear example:
"If you really wanted to apply logic to the Kavanaugh/Ford situation, you would look at the fact that Kavanaugh was caught lying under oath multiple times and while Ford was as honest as she could be every time she spoke."
"The reality is that those women were telling the truth. Anybody can see that. Nobody actually believes they were lying. But your emotional response, anger over the nerve of these women to stand up to such powerful men, causes you to lash out with baseless accusations and twisted logic in a vein attempt to discredit them and discourage other women from coming forward. You expect it to work, just like you expect your attempts to manipulate readers into believing you're not thinking emotionally will work."
To put it simply: we live in different realities.
If you truly and honestly believe Ford and the other women were telling the truth, then we are watching such different movies on the same screen that any conversation we have will go nowhere.
If you truly believe that a 60-year old, professional woman sounds and acts like this during a congressional hearing then you are in the middle of a full-blown hallucination:
https://youtu.be/uGxr1VQ2dPI?t=380
This is emotional manipulation 101. If you are a man, factcheck, then you will suffer at the hands of female manipulation for the rest of your life. If you are a woman, then you need to become more self-aware. Women are not stupid. Women, when motivated, can and will lie especially when the stakes are high.
There are those out there (maybe even yourself) who have truly convinced themselves that Trump is a dictator, or the next Hitler. Any lie or action against such a regime is justified. It's this kind of thinking that let the prison guards of Auschwitz burn jews alive.
The only way to break out your hallucination bubble, that I can think of, is to talk to a Trump voter in real life. Online won't cut it. Talk to them without the impression that they are evil, foolish, or being tricked. Try this and you may gain a different perspective.
This is a perfect example of how people will project their own feelings onto other people. You convince yourself that the women are lying because that's what you would do to your political opponents. You convince yourself that the opposing side are trying to manipulate you because you want to manipulate the opposing side.
You should really stop making so many assumptions about who I am and what I know. I work with several Trump voters every day and I have many more in my family that I interact with every day. I know at least as many people who voted for Trump as didn't, and I've never once called a single one of them evil or foolish. I have all the perspective I need. I know exactly why they voted for him and why they like it, it's not as well kept a secret as you want it to be. Like I said at the beginning of this conversation, it's fear mongering. He makes people like you fear people who don't look or sound like you. It's that fear that justifies any actions taken against them. It's that fear that justifies what happened to Jews in Auschwitz.
Time will tell if he's the next Hitler - there's no denying how similar at the same respective points of their reigns - but there's no doubt that he uses the same tactics Hitler used. Not just Hitler, there are hundreds of other dictators and cult leaders who have used the exact same tactics all around the world. Hitler is a commonly cited example because he's probably the most well known and it took it to the most extreme, but even non politicians like Jim Jones and Charles Manson used the same tactics to manipulate people. Hitler is also used as an example because we know that's where Trump learned them, by closely studying Mein Kampf.
Yes, body language matters. It's no secret that people(men in particular, old men especially) are easily intimidating by strong, confident women. She knows that she can't be obnoxious, loud, angry, and defiant like Brett Kavanaugh was. We'd have to see a lot more of her body language when she's not in that setting to know how uncommon it is for her, but there was nothing in her body language that indicated she wasn't telling the truth, unlike Kavanaugh, whose words and body language both indicated that he was lying throughout his testimony. Watch him yell, scream, evade questions, turn questions back on the panel. If you truly believe that's how an honest person who's done nothing wrong acts, then you are completely detached from reality.
Go talk to some women. In real life, not online. Talk to them without the preconceived notion that they're evil, manipulative liars. Maybe then you'll open your eyes. Until then, I really don't think we have anything else to talk about. Nothing I can say here will help you.
Save me and yourself some time: stop trying to read my mind, or Trump's mind, or white men's minds, or conservative Christian minds. Because you aren't a mindreader, factcheck. When you pretend to know someone's intent your emotions can and will take over. You will see shadows were there are none. You will, in fact, hallucinate.
I never said that women are evil, manipulative liars, nor did I ever intend to say they were. I said that where there is motivation to lie some people will lie. Some modern feminists honestly believe women are somehow too virtuous, or that they must otherwise always be trusted, and always right when it comes to rape accusations.
You seem to think I am somehow afraid of women gaining power or standing or something. This is all mind-reading. This is a habit you need to break, or you're going to remain inside a bubble.
No substantive difference between Sharia law and dumb ass fucktarded conservative Christians? I smell hysteria. Under Sharia law you can murder gays on suspicion of their gayness. You can also murder women that are victims of rape to put an end to their dishonor. Your comparison is laughable. If you even cared about these issues, you would support McBean who is a weapons system engineer doing something about the Middle East. You have lost all credibility. Go back to Reddit. Your hot air is listened to by nobody.
PS. Don't tell me I am a Trump supporter. I hate that asshole.
What do you think conservative Christians would do to homosexuals and women if they could? That's not a hypothetical question, we know the answer because we know what they did to them for well over a thousand years. We know what the bible says about them, or at least the modern Christian interpretation of it. (Which is completely contrary to what Jesus says about them, but conservative Christians have never much cared for what Jesus himself actually said.) I know Americans love to white wash our own history but for the first couple hundreds years of its history women and homosexuals were treated remarkably similar to how they're treated now in the Middle East...and they sure as hell didn't stop because they wanted to, they stopped because liberal secularists stopped them. And conservative Christians fought it angrily every step of the way, and they still fight it today. These are all facts. Religious extremists are the same everywhere, there's just a higher percentage of them in the Middle East. Do some research.
P.S. Using weapons in the middle east is the last thing we need. That's why there are so many extremists that hate us in the first place. You'd feel the same way about America as they do if you were over there watching us kill innocent civilians by the thousands.
Listen idiot. What would a terrorist do if his fellow terrorists took out a skyscraper with an A330, and the country said, "We disagree with your actions, but all is forgiven"? I'll tell what he would do. He would start taking out buildings like bowling pins at Lucky Lanes with a sense of delight. God damn, is your whining ever pathetic.
Your first comparison suggests no solutions. Apparently, you are not smart enough to think of any.
Your position needs clarification here. Sounds like you are saying that you feel persecuted, and you know that persecution is a reality, not a subjective perception. Is this correct?
Have you ever wept after a Presidential election result?
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Do you recall the dozens of women who claimed Donald Trump sexually assaulted them just prior to the presidential election? What happened to those women, and why didn't they follow-up on their claims? Even if he won--especially since he won--why wouldn't they see justice done?
A rapist in the whitehouse?!
It's because it was all theatrics. The claims were false, made to elicit an emotional response to persuade voters. This is one of 1000s of persuasive techniques that occured during that election. They may not be logical but they work on an emotional, basic level, and enough combined is enough to sway moderate voters.
We humans feel first and think second. We are emotional beings who mostly use logic to justify our emotions. The only way to understand how manipulated you are being is to understand how emotional you are getting. If the news has you in tears, beware and take a serious step back.
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factcheck
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Do you remember when Donald Trump was caught on tape admitting to doing exactly what they said he did and bragging about getting away with it? Do you remember when he ex wife said he raped her and he didn’t deny it, only falsely claimed that it’s not rape if the couple is married? Do you remember all of the other countless statements he’s publicly made that show how misogynistic he is?
You fear a society where men are held responsible for treating women poorly. That’s why you defend men who treat women poorly, that’s why you convince yourself that their claims must be false despite overwhelming evidence.
Again, you are the one being manipulated. I know you won’t see it now, maybe you never will, but the fact remains that all of human history shows people like Trump gain support by exploiting fear and the people who oppose them have always proven to be on the right side.
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bubsy
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McBean
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"You fear a society where men are held responsible for treating women poorly. That’s why you defend men who treat women poorly, that’s why you convince yourself that their claims must be false despite overwhelming evidence."
I don't recall ever saying this. Hell, check my recent comment history and you'll see how anti-Sharia Law I am. What I'm trying to do and what you're failing to do, is to take the emotion out of my argument and look at the pure logic around it. Why would the dozens of women who made rape claims against Trump prior to the election not follow up on those accusations?
Those in the media who are anti-Trump would absolutely jump at the opportunity and make sure their voices were heard. It would be a scandal that'd make Bill Clinton's bj in the oval office look like a joke. Yet this hasn't happened. The only logical conclusion I can find is that those accusations were false to begin with, and used only as an emotional manipulation tool for the election.
Speaking of emotional manipulation and rape claims, why aren't we hearing any more about Christine Blasey Ford? Why isn't she, her attournies and the Democrats pursuing her rape claim still? You haven't heard a word out of her since Kavanaugh got on the Supreme Court. If the claims were legitimate, what would it matter if Kavanaugh was on the Supreme Court or not?
The reality is, Ford's claim was only used as an emotional manipulation tool, the same as all those rape claims against Trump. Now that the election/nomination is over, the rape claims are no longer pursued. Weird how that works, isn't it?
Do me a favor, factcheck, and either change your screenname or start thinking more logically.
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factcheck
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For all of your talk about taking out emotions and thinking logically, your post sure has a whole lot of emotion and not much logic. Your belief that women would continue to follow up on their accusations is an emotional one, not a logical one. Logically, if they were going to pursue a criminal case, they would've done that already. So, logically, why are they bringing it up now? Logically, to stop their rapist or attempted rapist from becoming President or a Supreme Court justice. Once the election is over and the Senate votes, logic dictates there's nothing else for them to pursue. It's over. It's weird that you would think they would continue to pursue it at this point.
Speaking of logic, why did you completely ignore the majority of my post? Specifically, where I pointed out that Donald Trump has admitted to doing what those women said he did and bragged about getting away with it. Logically, that shows you know that they're telling the truth. If you really wanted to apply logic to the Kavanaugh/Ford situation, you would look at the fact that Kavanaugh was caught lying under oath multiple times and while Ford was as honest as she could be every time she spoke. Logically, that tells you she has more credibility that he does. If you wanted to apply logic, you would look at the fact that the investigation made no attempt to actually investigate the allegations by talking to anybody who knew both of them at the time, including the one person who could directly support Ford's claim and several other people who could make or support similar claims. If you were thinking logically, the only logical conclusion is that they wanted to hide the truth. But you aren't thinking logically, you're thinking emotionally.
The reality is that those women were telling the truth. Anybody can see that. Nobody actually believes they were lying. But your emotional response, anger over the nerve of these women to stand up to such powerful men, causes you to lash out with baseless accusations and twisted logic in a vein attempt to discredit them and discourage other women from coming forward. You expect it to work, just like you expect your attempts to manipulate readers into believing you're not thinking emotionally will work.
And finally, since we're on the topic of logic, it's illogical to be anti-Sharia Law yet also be a conservative, which your comment history shows you are. There's no substantive difference between Sharia Law and the "religious freedom" that conservatives preach. The only difference between the Middle East and the United States is that there are more secularists in the United States preventing conservative Christians from implementing the exact same anti-women and anti-gay laws they have in the Middle East. This is another fact that you can't deny, because it wasn't that long ago that conservative Christians had a lot more control over the US government and those laws were in place...women couldn't work, go to school, vote, or drive in the not too distant past...gay people had no rights in the very recent past...and conservative Christians weren't the ones who changed the laws. They've fought it every step of the way. You would know all of this if you looked at it logically, but your fear of people who don't look or sound like you clouds your judgment and politicians like Trump manipulate you and exploit that fear in their favor.
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Bazinga
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I mentioned before that people mostly use logic to justify their emotions. But I never thought I'd get such a clear example:
"If you really wanted to apply logic to the Kavanaugh/Ford situation, you would look at the fact that Kavanaugh was caught lying under oath multiple times and while Ford was as honest as she could be every time she spoke."
"The reality is that those women were telling the truth. Anybody can see that. Nobody actually believes they were lying. But your emotional response, anger over the nerve of these women to stand up to such powerful men, causes you to lash out with baseless accusations and twisted logic in a vein attempt to discredit them and discourage other women from coming forward. You expect it to work, just like you expect your attempts to manipulate readers into believing you're not thinking emotionally will work."
To put it simply: we live in different realities.
If you truly and honestly believe Ford and the other women were telling the truth, then we are watching such different movies on the same screen that any conversation we have will go nowhere.
If you truly believe that a 60-year old, professional woman sounds and acts like this during a congressional hearing then you are in the middle of a full-blown hallucination:
https://youtu.be/uGxr1VQ2dPI?t=380
This is emotional manipulation 101. If you are a man, factcheck, then you will suffer at the hands of female manipulation for the rest of your life. If you are a woman, then you need to become more self-aware. Women are not stupid. Women, when motivated, can and will lie especially when the stakes are high.
There are those out there (maybe even yourself) who have truly convinced themselves that Trump is a dictator, or the next Hitler. Any lie or action against such a regime is justified. It's this kind of thinking that let the prison guards of Auschwitz burn jews alive.
The only way to break out your hallucination bubble, that I can think of, is to talk to a Trump voter in real life. Online won't cut it. Talk to them without the impression that they are evil, foolish, or being tricked. Try this and you may gain a different perspective.
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factcheck
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This is a perfect example of how people will project their own feelings onto other people. You convince yourself that the women are lying because that's what you would do to your political opponents. You convince yourself that the opposing side are trying to manipulate you because you want to manipulate the opposing side.
You should really stop making so many assumptions about who I am and what I know. I work with several Trump voters every day and I have many more in my family that I interact with every day. I know at least as many people who voted for Trump as didn't, and I've never once called a single one of them evil or foolish. I have all the perspective I need. I know exactly why they voted for him and why they like it, it's not as well kept a secret as you want it to be. Like I said at the beginning of this conversation, it's fear mongering. He makes people like you fear people who don't look or sound like you. It's that fear that justifies any actions taken against them. It's that fear that justifies what happened to Jews in Auschwitz.
Time will tell if he's the next Hitler - there's no denying how similar at the same respective points of their reigns - but there's no doubt that he uses the same tactics Hitler used. Not just Hitler, there are hundreds of other dictators and cult leaders who have used the exact same tactics all around the world. Hitler is a commonly cited example because he's probably the most well known and it took it to the most extreme, but even non politicians like Jim Jones and Charles Manson used the same tactics to manipulate people. Hitler is also used as an example because we know that's where Trump learned them, by closely studying Mein Kampf.
Yes, body language matters. It's no secret that people(men in particular, old men especially) are easily intimidating by strong, confident women. She knows that she can't be obnoxious, loud, angry, and defiant like Brett Kavanaugh was. We'd have to see a lot more of her body language when she's not in that setting to know how uncommon it is for her, but there was nothing in her body language that indicated she wasn't telling the truth, unlike Kavanaugh, whose words and body language both indicated that he was lying throughout his testimony. Watch him yell, scream, evade questions, turn questions back on the panel. If you truly believe that's how an honest person who's done nothing wrong acts, then you are completely detached from reality.
Go talk to some women. In real life, not online. Talk to them without the preconceived notion that they're evil, manipulative liars. Maybe then you'll open your eyes. Until then, I really don't think we have anything else to talk about. Nothing I can say here will help you.
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Save me and yourself some time: stop trying to read my mind, or Trump's mind, or white men's minds, or conservative Christian minds. Because you aren't a mindreader, factcheck. When you pretend to know someone's intent your emotions can and will take over. You will see shadows were there are none. You will, in fact, hallucinate.
I never said that women are evil, manipulative liars, nor did I ever intend to say they were. I said that where there is motivation to lie some people will lie. Some modern feminists honestly believe women are somehow too virtuous, or that they must otherwise always be trusted, and always right when it comes to rape accusations.
Yet the facts tell us a different story:
https://www.lifezette.com/2018/11/woman-who-claimed-brett-kavanaugh-raped-her-now-admits-she-never-met-him/
You seem to think I am somehow afraid of women gaining power or standing or something. This is all mind-reading. This is a habit you need to break, or you're going to remain inside a bubble.
No substantive difference between Sharia law and dumb ass fucktarded conservative Christians? I smell hysteria. Under Sharia law you can murder gays on suspicion of their gayness. You can also murder women that are victims of rape to put an end to their dishonor. Your comparison is laughable. If you even cared about these issues, you would support McBean who is a weapons system engineer doing something about the Middle East. You have lost all credibility. Go back to Reddit. Your hot air is listened to by nobody.
PS. Don't tell me I am a Trump supporter. I hate that asshole.
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What do you think conservative Christians would do to homosexuals and women if they could? That's not a hypothetical question, we know the answer because we know what they did to them for well over a thousand years. We know what the bible says about them, or at least the modern Christian interpretation of it. (Which is completely contrary to what Jesus says about them, but conservative Christians have never much cared for what Jesus himself actually said.) I know Americans love to white wash our own history but for the first couple hundreds years of its history women and homosexuals were treated remarkably similar to how they're treated now in the Middle East...and they sure as hell didn't stop because they wanted to, they stopped because liberal secularists stopped them. And conservative Christians fought it angrily every step of the way, and they still fight it today. These are all facts. Religious extremists are the same everywhere, there's just a higher percentage of them in the Middle East. Do some research.
P.S. Using weapons in the middle east is the last thing we need. That's why there are so many extremists that hate us in the first place. You'd feel the same way about America as they do if you were over there watching us kill innocent civilians by the thousands.
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Listen idiot. What would a terrorist do if his fellow terrorists took out a skyscraper with an A330, and the country said, "We disagree with your actions, but all is forgiven"? I'll tell what he would do. He would start taking out buildings like bowling pins at Lucky Lanes with a sense of delight. God damn, is your whining ever pathetic.
Your first comparison suggests no solutions. Apparently, you are not smart enough to think of any.
Your position needs clarification here. Sounds like you are saying that you feel persecuted, and you know that persecution is a reality, not a subjective perception. Is this correct?