Feminism isn't synonymous with "man bashing". I don't think wanting women to have equal rights as men is anti-male. I don't see a reason why women shouldn't have equal rights and equal opportunities, and if women do have fewer rights and opportunities, then changing that isn't "bashing" men at all. I don't think people should be given special privileges based solely on whether they're male or female. I'm not sure if that makes me a feminist or not.
I don't know enough about the topic to have an informed opinion about it. I do think it's still necessary, though, unfortunately.
So I guess that's my answer; it's necessary. I think it's bad that a group like this is needed in the first place, but if there is a need, then I think it's good that the group exists.
My feeling is that feminism, the theory, and even the mere word, affirms the very thing that it seems to resent- a fundamental difference between people. Suckonthis9 actually makes a good point, although he's obnoxious about it. -ists and -isms are stratifying words, words that create groups and label people.
I am *not* a "feminist" but I do believe in equality of all human beings. I resent the fact that a modern movement feels that it can take ownership of something like "equality". I don't think one has to be a feminist to believe that women are people, just like men. I hate the word "feminism" and honestly I think the movement is misguided. Why do feminists feel the need to slap a label on the belief that we're all just people? It is a CONTRADICTION in itself. If we're all just people, why do you have to put a label on yourself like that? Believing in equality is not a proprietary element of the feminist movement. Belief in equality LONG transcends and precedes that movement.
My points are all over the place, I've being feeling scatterbrained recently, but does that make sense?
That makes sense to me.:) In fact, I've wrote similar things on the site, and I think I agree with you. At least I think we're on the same page, maybe I misinterpreted your point. Hmmm...I'm off to use the search bar!
"I wouldn't consider myself a feminist at all. I really think just having a group working for equality would be more effective, where inequality faced by both men and women is focused on (rather than focusing on one gender). I feel like feminism neglects inequalities faced by men, and therefore leads to them becoming alienated. However, it's undeniable that women are the main victims of sexism, therefore feminism is justifiable and understandable, in my opinion."
Ugh, I feel a bit weird quoting myself! It just takes less time than formulating and writing what I want to say out again, though. Is that along the lines of what you wrote? Or did I just misinterpret your comment?:P
Either way, like I said on my initial comment on this post, I really don't know enough about the topic. I've always just assumed that the reason Feminism came about is because there was a significant difference between the rights men had and the rights women had (favouring men), and I'm sure this is still the case in some countries. So, there needed to a movement focused on women and giving them the rights they didn't have but men did, and creating a level playing field, so to speak.
It does make sense to me, but that was the past, and I'd hope that we'd have moved on from that now, to the point where Feminism is no longer needed. I also believe in equality for everyone, which is why I was unsure as to whether I could be deemed as a feminist. I've never felt like one and it's not something I'd label myself as. I feel like if you're going to preach about equality, that you can't just focus it on one group, because it does seem contradictory to the notion of equality, like you said.:)
Blah, I'm feeling a bit scatterbrained myself (it's absolutely boiling here, and my brain is melting!). Did *that* make sense?:P I feel like I've rambled without actually making the point I wanted to make.D: Either way, I do agree with what you're saying, I just can't word it properly at the moment.
I know, right! I mean tearing down male victim awareness posters isn't anti-male at all! Even when breaking the law to do so, which they were aware of! Not anti-male at all!
Or how they attack men with vilgar language for going to view a speech about what men face in modern society, holding the doors shut to prevent the men from having their freedom of choice, then pulling fire alarms to stop the speech, which is going against the whole idea of "equality" by not allowing men to have their speeches while they are allowed theirs.
Now you're mistaking male-haters for feminists. Feminists don't do anything like that even if those men haters call themselves feminists. Actual idea of feminism is about equality but some women take it too far but that's not how most of feminists behave.
No, friend, this is where you are mistaking feminists for anything other than male-haters. It was feminists that done this.
You can't have a group who's most prominent people act a certain way and dictate what the movement is just to say "that isn't what the movements is about".
Most feminists agree with the ideology these people have. They follow the same beliefs.
However you do bring up a good point, but it is betrayed by how the so called "real" feminists have done "nothing" to say "these people are wrong, don't confuse these posers with real feminists".
If feminists, the "real ones" really differed and had a problem with what these other feminists are doing, why have we not heard them point out how wrong these other people in their movement have done wrong?
Until the movement starts pointing out to these feminists that are the most active in feminism that they are doing wrong from doing such things, they are implying they have no problem with such people in their group.
You can't have a group filled with people doing what I explained, then expect to be seen as the complete opposite.
It depends where you look. A lot of "real" feminists on the internet opose the idea of hating men. But nobody notices them because all people see are the fanatised crazy men haters.
Well, to be honest, these are people in the same movement. If feminism really had a problem with these people instead of just disagreeing with them so to not seem morally negative, they would call these people out and tell the public that these people doing such things in the name of feminism are not feminists, that they are man haters.
Until they go out of their way to show that they do not want such people in their group claiming to be people from the movement, why should anyone say feminism is against it? Nobody has been given reason to suggest they don't.
These types of feminists are the prominent ones in the group. They are the ones doing most action in it, and those actions are not positive ones. Like I said above, until the movement puts the spotlight on them and remove their status as feminists, explaining that those people are not doing what feminism is all about, then the people in the movement doing the most are going to be the poster-child for the movement.
You have interesting points to make, but you're not going to convince anyone by harassing everyone who uses an -ist or -ism. Thats why you get thumbed down so much. Just make your point and move on, you don't have to be so persistent, you're just wasting your time and pissing people off.
Most of what the group claims tends to be refuted. The movement is not necessary at all, and it is an anti-male movement "now". Look at VAWA for example "The violence against women act", even though that males make up half of violent crime victims and domestic violence victims, the act is completely skewed to help women.
Men are constantly turned down from domestic violence shelters simply for being male, and even though half of the victims are male, the vast majority of the shelters are for women, not equal for men.
I don't think you understand that most people do not believe women should have less rights, feminism is not just about getting equal rights, it's about getting privilege for women.
You're talking about a group that tears down male victim awareness posters for not good reason. A group that calls men going to a speech to listen to what someone has to say on what men face "fucking scum", and other vulgar things. Holding the doors shut not allowing people to have their right to view what they want to view simply because it does not comply with the feminists ideology.
Hell, there was a case where feminists murdered an ex-feminists dog and sent constant death threats simply on talking on the problems men face (which is what equality is about, both male and female problems).
They are the type of group that goes on and on about things like the wage gap, even when there has been a study and now factual proof that the reason for the pay gap is that men make different choices than women in life to get that extra pay. This group "chooses" not to acknowledge these facts because it doesn't comply with what they want the conclusion to be, that they are just victims of this so called "patriarchy".
The group may have been needed back in the day, but not now.
'Exist', is formed from the Latin root 'sistere' (to stand), and is a prefixed word form. The '-ists' are all formed from the Greek (Hellenic) 'istēs', and are a suffixed word form.
Feminism: Good or Bad?
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Feminism isn't synonymous with "man bashing". I don't think wanting women to have equal rights as men is anti-male. I don't see a reason why women shouldn't have equal rights and equal opportunities, and if women do have fewer rights and opportunities, then changing that isn't "bashing" men at all. I don't think people should be given special privileges based solely on whether they're male or female. I'm not sure if that makes me a feminist or not.
I don't know enough about the topic to have an informed opinion about it. I do think it's still necessary, though, unfortunately.
So I guess that's my answer; it's necessary. I think it's bad that a group like this is needed in the first place, but if there is a need, then I think it's good that the group exists.
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My feeling is that feminism, the theory, and even the mere word, affirms the very thing that it seems to resent- a fundamental difference between people. Suckonthis9 actually makes a good point, although he's obnoxious about it. -ists and -isms are stratifying words, words that create groups and label people.
I am *not* a "feminist" but I do believe in equality of all human beings. I resent the fact that a modern movement feels that it can take ownership of something like "equality". I don't think one has to be a feminist to believe that women are people, just like men. I hate the word "feminism" and honestly I think the movement is misguided. Why do feminists feel the need to slap a label on the belief that we're all just people? It is a CONTRADICTION in itself. If we're all just people, why do you have to put a label on yourself like that? Believing in equality is not a proprietary element of the feminist movement. Belief in equality LONG transcends and precedes that movement.
My points are all over the place, I've being feeling scatterbrained recently, but does that make sense?
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That makes sense to me.:) In fact, I've wrote similar things on the site, and I think I agree with you. At least I think we're on the same page, maybe I misinterpreted your point. Hmmm...I'm off to use the search bar!
"I wouldn't consider myself a feminist at all. I really think just having a group working for equality would be more effective, where inequality faced by both men and women is focused on (rather than focusing on one gender). I feel like feminism neglects inequalities faced by men, and therefore leads to them becoming alienated. However, it's undeniable that women are the main victims of sexism, therefore feminism is justifiable and understandable, in my opinion."
Ugh, I feel a bit weird quoting myself! It just takes less time than formulating and writing what I want to say out again, though. Is that along the lines of what you wrote? Or did I just misinterpret your comment?:P
Either way, like I said on my initial comment on this post, I really don't know enough about the topic. I've always just assumed that the reason Feminism came about is because there was a significant difference between the rights men had and the rights women had (favouring men), and I'm sure this is still the case in some countries. So, there needed to a movement focused on women and giving them the rights they didn't have but men did, and creating a level playing field, so to speak.
It does make sense to me, but that was the past, and I'd hope that we'd have moved on from that now, to the point where Feminism is no longer needed. I also believe in equality for everyone, which is why I was unsure as to whether I could be deemed as a feminist. I've never felt like one and it's not something I'd label myself as. I feel like if you're going to preach about equality, that you can't just focus it on one group, because it does seem contradictory to the notion of equality, like you said.:)
Blah, I'm feeling a bit scatterbrained myself (it's absolutely boiling here, and my brain is melting!). Did *that* make sense?:P I feel like I've rambled without actually making the point I wanted to make.D: Either way, I do agree with what you're saying, I just can't word it properly at the moment.
^this
Many pople think that feminists want women to be more than men but that's bullshit. Feminism is about equality not about hating men.
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I know, right! I mean tearing down male victim awareness posters isn't anti-male at all! Even when breaking the law to do so, which they were aware of! Not anti-male at all!
Or how they attack men with vilgar language for going to view a speech about what men face in modern society, holding the doors shut to prevent the men from having their freedom of choice, then pulling fire alarms to stop the speech, which is going against the whole idea of "equality" by not allowing men to have their speeches while they are allowed theirs.
I mean, this is totally not anti-male behavior.
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Now you're mistaking male-haters for feminists. Feminists don't do anything like that even if those men haters call themselves feminists. Actual idea of feminism is about equality but some women take it too far but that's not how most of feminists behave.
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No, friend, this is where you are mistaking feminists for anything other than male-haters. It was feminists that done this.
You can't have a group who's most prominent people act a certain way and dictate what the movement is just to say "that isn't what the movements is about".
Most feminists agree with the ideology these people have. They follow the same beliefs.
However you do bring up a good point, but it is betrayed by how the so called "real" feminists have done "nothing" to say "these people are wrong, don't confuse these posers with real feminists".
If feminists, the "real ones" really differed and had a problem with what these other feminists are doing, why have we not heard them point out how wrong these other people in their movement have done wrong?
Until the movement starts pointing out to these feminists that are the most active in feminism that they are doing wrong from doing such things, they are implying they have no problem with such people in their group.
You can't have a group filled with people doing what I explained, then expect to be seen as the complete opposite.
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It depends where you look. A lot of "real" feminists on the internet opose the idea of hating men. But nobody notices them because all people see are the fanatised crazy men haters.
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Well, to be honest, these are people in the same movement. If feminism really had a problem with these people instead of just disagreeing with them so to not seem morally negative, they would call these people out and tell the public that these people doing such things in the name of feminism are not feminists, that they are man haters.
Until they go out of their way to show that they do not want such people in their group claiming to be people from the movement, why should anyone say feminism is against it? Nobody has been given reason to suggest they don't.
These types of feminists are the prominent ones in the group. They are the ones doing most action in it, and those actions are not positive ones. Like I said above, until the movement puts the spotlight on them and remove their status as feminists, explaining that those people are not doing what feminism is all about, then the people in the movement doing the most are going to be the poster-child for the movement.
Please do not use -ists or -isms.
Thank you.
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You have interesting points to make, but you're not going to convince anyone by harassing everyone who uses an -ist or -ism. Thats why you get thumbed down so much. Just make your point and move on, you don't have to be so persistent, you're just wasting your time and pissing people off.
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robbieforgotpw
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Watch out comrade he may sic(sp?) the dipstick vhatc l2 weirdos on you. Has he told you about them and his ET experience?
*Enos you dipstick, "cood yood yood yood" ANY OLD SCHOOL FOLK RECOGNIZE THE REFERENCE?
you're into human rights. a Humanist
why are there feminists and the mens movement. if they both want gender equality.
it's like the KKK and black panthers.
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suckonthis9
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Please do not use -ists or -isms.
Thank you.
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sograceful
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Do you get as tired of being the Supreme Moderator of Ists and Isms as I get reading your posts?
Most of what the group claims tends to be refuted. The movement is not necessary at all, and it is an anti-male movement "now". Look at VAWA for example "The violence against women act", even though that males make up half of violent crime victims and domestic violence victims, the act is completely skewed to help women.
Men are constantly turned down from domestic violence shelters simply for being male, and even though half of the victims are male, the vast majority of the shelters are for women, not equal for men.
I don't think you understand that most people do not believe women should have less rights, feminism is not just about getting equal rights, it's about getting privilege for women.
You're talking about a group that tears down male victim awareness posters for not good reason. A group that calls men going to a speech to listen to what someone has to say on what men face "fucking scum", and other vulgar things. Holding the doors shut not allowing people to have their right to view what they want to view simply because it does not comply with the feminists ideology.
Hell, there was a case where feminists murdered an ex-feminists dog and sent constant death threats simply on talking on the problems men face (which is what equality is about, both male and female problems).
They are the type of group that goes on and on about things like the wage gap, even when there has been a study and now factual proof that the reason for the pay gap is that men make different choices than women in life to get that extra pay. This group "chooses" not to acknowledge these facts because it doesn't comply with what they want the conclusion to be, that they are just victims of this so called "patriarchy".
The group may have been needed back in the day, but not now.
Please do not use -ists or -isms.
Thank you.
"Exists", is fine. It is not an -ist.
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I beg to differ, "exists" is an -ist. It is fundamentally presumptuous of a certain reality.
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Incorrect.
'Exist', is formed from the Latin root 'sistere' (to stand), and is a prefixed word form. The '-ists' are all formed from the Greek (Hellenic) 'istēs', and are a suffixed word form.
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haha ok