I was thinking in particular of the surveys National Geographic do. I know we don't really get that here and I have to admit I was only aware of it because of an article in an English newspaper. I think the Roper survey of 2002 was the one many people reference. I looked for it before writing my reply to you and the website it was on had disappeared. The preamble is here, though:
This was the bit that initially scared me when I first read it:
About 11 percent of young citizens of the U.S. couldn't even locate the U.S. on a map. The Pacific Ocean's location was a mystery to 29 percent; Japan, to 58 percent; France, to 65 percent; and the United Kingdom, to 69 percent.
The figure that really sticks in my head was that people all over the world were tested and the U.S. ended up 117th in a league table of 190-odd countries (and we weren't much higher). That would be a bad result in general but it's compounded by the fact that the ten best universities in the world are generally ALL in America and Britain each year (usually seven for them, three for us). They're a world superpower, we're an ex-superpower. What on earth are we doing education-wise?
Actually, I've just noticed that if you take the survey, it gives you the percentage of correct answers by the nine countries featured in this part of the test. Scary that the first question is about the US and the least informed about US population were people from the US. The population ranges were *very* generous too.
I can't comment on the league table statistic because I couldn't find that in the survey you mentioned. Was it from another survey or am I just being blind?
The 2002 Roper geosurvey only assessed 9 countries: United States, Canada, Mexico, France, Germany, Italy, Sweden, Great Britain, and Japan. 300 people aged 18-24 years old from each country were asked. The results of the included geography quiz in order, 1st scoring highest:
Sweden - 40%
Germany - 38%
Italy 38%
France 34%
Japan 31%
Great Britain 28%
Canada 27%
U.S. 23%
Mexico 21%
I feel like 300 people from any of those 9 countries is too small a percentage of any of their populations to confidently draw conclusions. The methodology section also doesn't elaborate on the mode of selection. It could have been door-to-door in a single town of each country!
I'd have to see a better survey to be convinced, one including more than 9 countries. But I do think, judging from my personal experience, our education system could benefit from including more to do with the rest of the world, especially our relationship in Britain with the rest of the world, both in modern times and antiquity.
I'm honestly not sure. I did do quite a bit of searching before I posted (because I didn't like the idea of posting something I wasn't that confident on). In the end I was a bit sneaky and said "the one many people reference" as opposed to what I believe. I found loads of stuff that seems to corroborate the "117th" factoid but nothing that's actually got a league table or good research.
As for the one you found, it does seem really familiar so I'm thinking I've probably read two separate things over the years and put them together in my mind as if they were the same one. That's what it feels like, anyway. And yeah, I agree with you that it's too small a sample. If I'd have read that myself before posting, I'd have thought the same thing.
One final note: given how difficult it was for me to find something which seems as useful as comparing education internationally, do we think that itself is a failing (that we're not testing). Quite a lot of testing is done at University level (although it's open to abuse) but we don't seem to test international on a country by country basis for primary or further education. Or, if we do, it's not made public.
Do You think this is normal?
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I was thinking in particular of the surveys National Geographic do. I know we don't really get that here and I have to admit I was only aware of it because of an article in an English newspaper. I think the Roper survey of 2002 was the one many people reference. I looked for it before writing my reply to you and the website it was on had disappeared. The preamble is here, though:
http://news.nationalgeographic.co.uk/news/2002/11/1120_021120_GeoRoperSurvey.html
This was the bit that initially scared me when I first read it:
About 11 percent of young citizens of the U.S. couldn't even locate the U.S. on a map. The Pacific Ocean's location was a mystery to 29 percent; Japan, to 58 percent; France, to 65 percent; and the United Kingdom, to 69 percent.
The figure that really sticks in my head was that people all over the world were tested and the U.S. ended up 117th in a league table of 190-odd countries (and we weren't much higher). That would be a bad result in general but it's compounded by the fact that the ten best universities in the world are generally ALL in America and Britain each year (usually seven for them, three for us). They're a world superpower, we're an ex-superpower. What on earth are we doing education-wise?
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dappled
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Found the survey questions but still can't track down detailed results.
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/geosurvey/tem...
Actually, I've just noticed that if you take the survey, it gives you the percentage of correct answers by the nine countries featured in this part of the test. Scary that the first question is about the US and the least informed about US population were people from the US. The population ranges were *very* generous too.
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http://www.nationalgeographic.com/geosurvey2002/download/RoperSurvey.pdf
Is this what you're referring to?
I can't comment on the league table statistic because I couldn't find that in the survey you mentioned. Was it from another survey or am I just being blind?
The 2002 Roper geosurvey only assessed 9 countries: United States, Canada, Mexico, France, Germany, Italy, Sweden, Great Britain, and Japan. 300 people aged 18-24 years old from each country were asked. The results of the included geography quiz in order, 1st scoring highest:
Sweden - 40%
Germany - 38%
Italy 38%
France 34%
Japan 31%
Great Britain 28%
Canada 27%
U.S. 23%
Mexico 21%
I feel like 300 people from any of those 9 countries is too small a percentage of any of their populations to confidently draw conclusions. The methodology section also doesn't elaborate on the mode of selection. It could have been door-to-door in a single town of each country!
I'd have to see a better survey to be convinced, one including more than 9 countries. But I do think, judging from my personal experience, our education system could benefit from including more to do with the rest of the world, especially our relationship in Britain with the rest of the world, both in modern times and antiquity.
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dappled
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I'm honestly not sure. I did do quite a bit of searching before I posted (because I didn't like the idea of posting something I wasn't that confident on). In the end I was a bit sneaky and said "the one many people reference" as opposed to what I believe. I found loads of stuff that seems to corroborate the "117th" factoid but nothing that's actually got a league table or good research.
As for the one you found, it does seem really familiar so I'm thinking I've probably read two separate things over the years and put them together in my mind as if they were the same one. That's what it feels like, anyway. And yeah, I agree with you that it's too small a sample. If I'd have read that myself before posting, I'd have thought the same thing.
One final note: given how difficult it was for me to find something which seems as useful as comparing education internationally, do we think that itself is a failing (that we're not testing). Quite a lot of testing is done at University level (although it's open to abuse) but we don't seem to test international on a country by country basis for primary or further education. Or, if we do, it's not made public.