Who says music is worth any money? That's my take on it. It's only worth what someone will pay for it and if that happens to be $0, then that's what it's worth. Period.
1) I raided a jewelry store. Who says it's worth any money? It's not like anyone put any effort into mining, cutting, mounting, and designing that diamond jewelry, right? Does that mean that this diamond ring is worth $0?
2) Radiohead. They sold In Rainbows for whatever price the customer thought it was worth. Even if that was $0.
They made lots of money.
Wigsplitz is using the actual economic definition of worth. It's actually correct even though nobody really wants to believe it. Human beings are such emotional creatures that we deny reality for what we WISH it was.
If today I went to Africa, found a rare pink diamond, and made earrings and no one wanted to buy them, they are economically worthless.
I think you speak of sentimental value which is more emotional than factual.
Let's say I risked my LIFE for that diamond and no one wants it, but I feel it is valuable because of my risk. Does this mean it's valuable to everyone else and they'll buy it? Probably not, unless I used emotional appeal through my sob story.
1) It's worth what someone's willing to pay for it. The market sorts that out. If no one is willing to buy diamond rings, then, well, it's worth $0, isn't it?
2) So? Of course bands have loyal fans who want to support them. I never said they didn't. I said..."It's worth what someone's willing to pay for it". That could be $0, that could be $1000.
Well the fact is that they are working for that money. It is there job to do it. Though I think most of them are over paid for something that does not take a lot of intelligence to do yet makes more over the amount people spend four years in school to get. Which seems really backwards if you think about it. It is like saying "I will make you be a doctor but I will pay you nothing to do so"! So do you see why we pay? That person still has to live. My point is saying that reselling the music you already pay for is not a big deal since people copy it anyways on there computer. Which is legal! So is it worth making a lawsuit and jail time over?
You don't get it. It doesn't matter how hard you work on something, the market determines the price. It's only worth what it's worth. You can charge whatever the hell you want for whatever it is you're selling but people are only going to pay what it's worth. List your car for sale and price it $5000 more than it's worth and see what happens. Offer to mow your neighbor's lawn for $1000 an hour. Do you think you'll get that price just because you asked?
Times change. In the 60's a 12" color TV cost months worth of salary. A 12" old fashioned TV today is worth nothing. Maybe in the 90's a CD WAS worth $20, but that's not true anymore in general. This happens with everything because the market changes. It's too bad if businesses or services are no longer valuable but it happens. Yes it's the musicians property but I'm trying to explain, if it's not valuable enough to people then that's that, you CAN'T sell it (or you can't price it too high).
In many cases the music that is "stolen" can't be considered a loss since you can't assume that all of those people who pirated that music would have actually bought the CD.
The music industry should have adapted quicker to digital downloads instead of resisting it so hard. By resisting the change to digital music, they themselves created a generation that got used to "free" music and it's hard for them to get people to pay now whereas if they had embraced the technology long ago people would be more used to paying a small amount per song.
PS: reselling music that you don't have rights to is stealing and it is illegal. WHy do you think it's not illegal? lol
I think that mainstream music should mostly be affected by piracy but I'm still amazed how many albums these pop artists sell. I can't believe anyone is going to a store to buy tiny tempah or Adele, even though they apparently sell millions of albums. Pop music is shallow so I expect its fans to be shallow in their effort to obtain it. Pop music is designed for radio instant gratification. The process of illegally downloading an album is for the sake of instant gratification. It's quick and free.
Would you be surprised to know that the bands in the genre of music I listen to (rock/metal) release the odd lp/ep on vinyl? Vinyl has a fanbase but more importantly the bands and artists have a loyal fanbase. Pop music is becoming more and more manufactured ( digatlly constructed ear candy nonsense/dubstep) and it is losing its musical integrity by the day...
But on the other side of things, bands within other genres such as hardcore, rock, metal, are cultivating their following and constantly earning respect because of the sincere effort and artwork presented in their product. The fanbase of these bands is full of people who believe in these artists and support them by buying their CD/mp3's.These people buy tickets to the shows and demonstrate loyalty by doing so. There is a real depth of unity in these scenes and the record sales prove it.
"No you said pop music is shallow so you expect the fans to be". So people who like pop music are all shallow people. How does liking a genre of music make someone shallow?
That still does not mean it is worthless. How about a person who works doing his job everyday. They are not worthless and they deserve to be paid. You can not say they dont since they are doing something to make money. If that the case you are worthless and you should be forced into labor. If you get nothing thats fine since if everyone says it means nothing it means you are nothing and deserve nothing. Which does not make a good economies since people are poor and dying. You have to stay alive dont you? You need a roof and food dont you? You think we should not be given something for what we do? We should just all be forced into labor till we die? Thats what we are to you? A bunch of worthless paper plates?
I didn't say it was definitively worthless, I said it's only worth what people will pay for it. How do you still not get that?
Did you know that gasoline used to be a worthless by-product that the refiners threw out? And look, now we're at war over it and the price is high. Something that you think is so valuable right now was worthless at one time. Take a gallon jug of gasoline back in time and try to convince people that it's worth their entire year's salary. Good luck with that.
Worth can't be some fantasy, it has to be grounded in reality. You might bust your ass working on something but it's only worth what you can sell it for. Not everyone is willing to buy what you're selling sometimes, ya know?
Do you think pirating music is really that big of a deal?
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Who says music is worth any money? That's my take on it. It's only worth what someone will pay for it and if that happens to be $0, then that's what it's worth. Period.
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dodongos
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1) I raided a jewelry store. Who says it's worth any money? It's not like anyone put any effort into mining, cutting, mounting, and designing that diamond jewelry, right? Does that mean that this diamond ring is worth $0?
2) Radiohead. They sold In Rainbows for whatever price the customer thought it was worth. Even if that was $0.
They made lots of money.
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wigsplitz
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Wigsplitz is using the actual economic definition of worth. It's actually correct even though nobody really wants to believe it. Human beings are such emotional creatures that we deny reality for what we WISH it was.
If today I went to Africa, found a rare pink diamond, and made earrings and no one wanted to buy them, they are economically worthless.
I think you speak of sentimental value which is more emotional than factual.
Let's say I risked my LIFE for that diamond and no one wants it, but I feel it is valuable because of my risk. Does this mean it's valuable to everyone else and they'll buy it? Probably not, unless I used emotional appeal through my sob story.
1) It's worth what someone's willing to pay for it. The market sorts that out. If no one is willing to buy diamond rings, then, well, it's worth $0, isn't it?
2) So? Of course bands have loyal fans who want to support them. I never said they didn't. I said..."It's worth what someone's willing to pay for it". That could be $0, that could be $1000.
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dodongos
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I was just answering your question.
"Who says music is worth any money?"
Those people who would pay for a free album.
Well the fact is that they are working for that money. It is there job to do it. Though I think most of them are over paid for something that does not take a lot of intelligence to do yet makes more over the amount people spend four years in school to get. Which seems really backwards if you think about it. It is like saying "I will make you be a doctor but I will pay you nothing to do so"! So do you see why we pay? That person still has to live. My point is saying that reselling the music you already pay for is not a big deal since people copy it anyways on there computer. Which is legal! So is it worth making a lawsuit and jail time over?
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wigsplitz
10 years ago
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[Old Memory]
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You don't get it. It doesn't matter how hard you work on something, the market determines the price. It's only worth what it's worth. You can charge whatever the hell you want for whatever it is you're selling but people are only going to pay what it's worth. List your car for sale and price it $5000 more than it's worth and see what happens. Offer to mow your neighbor's lawn for $1000 an hour. Do you think you'll get that price just because you asked?
Times change. In the 60's a 12" color TV cost months worth of salary. A 12" old fashioned TV today is worth nothing. Maybe in the 90's a CD WAS worth $20, but that's not true anymore in general. This happens with everything because the market changes. It's too bad if businesses or services are no longer valuable but it happens. Yes it's the musicians property but I'm trying to explain, if it's not valuable enough to people then that's that, you CAN'T sell it (or you can't price it too high).
In many cases the music that is "stolen" can't be considered a loss since you can't assume that all of those people who pirated that music would have actually bought the CD.
The music industry should have adapted quicker to digital downloads instead of resisting it so hard. By resisting the change to digital music, they themselves created a generation that got used to "free" music and it's hard for them to get people to pay now whereas if they had embraced the technology long ago people would be more used to paying a small amount per song.
PS: reselling music that you don't have rights to is stealing and it is illegal. WHy do you think it's not illegal? lol
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I think that mainstream music should mostly be affected by piracy but I'm still amazed how many albums these pop artists sell. I can't believe anyone is going to a store to buy tiny tempah or Adele, even though they apparently sell millions of albums. Pop music is shallow so I expect its fans to be shallow in their effort to obtain it. Pop music is designed for radio instant gratification. The process of illegally downloading an album is for the sake of instant gratification. It's quick and free.
Would you be surprised to know that the bands in the genre of music I listen to (rock/metal) release the odd lp/ep on vinyl? Vinyl has a fanbase but more importantly the bands and artists have a loyal fanbase. Pop music is becoming more and more manufactured ( digatlly constructed ear candy nonsense/dubstep) and it is losing its musical integrity by the day...
But on the other side of things, bands within other genres such as hardcore, rock, metal, are cultivating their following and constantly earning respect because of the sincere effort and artwork presented in their product. The fanbase of these bands is full of people who believe in these artists and support them by buying their CD/mp3's.These people buy tickets to the shows and demonstrate loyalty by doing so. There is a real depth of unity in these scenes and the record sales prove it.
Music is thriving underground.
I should know, I own a record label.
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Anonymous Post Author
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So we are shallow for liking music?
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[Old Memory]
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I think you are shallow for misinterpreting the arguement and asking a silly question to challenge my statement.
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"No you said pop music is shallow so you expect the fans to be". So people who like pop music are all shallow people. How does liking a genre of music make someone shallow?
That still does not mean it is worthless. How about a person who works doing his job everyday. They are not worthless and they deserve to be paid. You can not say they dont since they are doing something to make money. If that the case you are worthless and you should be forced into labor. If you get nothing thats fine since if everyone says it means nothing it means you are nothing and deserve nothing. Which does not make a good economies since people are poor and dying. You have to stay alive dont you? You need a roof and food dont you? You think we should not be given something for what we do? We should just all be forced into labor till we die? Thats what we are to you? A bunch of worthless paper plates?
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wigsplitz
10 years ago
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I didn't say it was definitively worthless, I said it's only worth what people will pay for it. How do you still not get that?
Did you know that gasoline used to be a worthless by-product that the refiners threw out? And look, now we're at war over it and the price is high. Something that you think is so valuable right now was worthless at one time. Take a gallon jug of gasoline back in time and try to convince people that it's worth their entire year's salary. Good luck with that.
Worth can't be some fantasy, it has to be grounded in reality. You might bust your ass working on something but it's only worth what you can sell it for. Not everyone is willing to buy what you're selling sometimes, ya know?
(some) Music is so intelligent that YOU cannot comprehend it. You know nothing about the complexity of music and all of its aspects.
Creativity, ability to play an instrument,composition, equipment, sound engineering, the business within the industry and the management it takes...
All of these things are to be studied at university level.
You present yourself to be immature, naive and narrow minded with what you say.
Remember that you still have time to grow and shape your opinions.