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If a person was born male then had a sex change to female, meaning their dick was cut off and turned into a vag. Would you consider them a real woman? To the guys out there, would you date a tranny if you knew this?
| Yes, I see them as a real woman | 76 | |
| No, I see them as a man with his dick cut off | 68 |
I just think it'd be deceitful for a transexual woman to start dating someone who has no idea that they were born a male. Even though the person who went through surgery believes they are a female, their sexual partner has a right to know.
At least I'd want to know, because that's a major detail.
This is a touchy subject. I would consider them a woman by physical design, but I would still think of them as a man mentally, spiritually, and internally.
The example I'm thinking of is a Potato. You skin it, slice it into fries and fry them. At this point they're called French Fries because of their physical state, but internally and from a logical standpoint they're still Potatoes.
How many transgender people have you actually interacted with?
I'm willing to bet that you would most likely consider them the gender that they display the most traits of, physically and otherwise.
I'd also bet you HAVE interacted with some trans folk and already done as such.
I have 5 friends who are transgendered.
And no, I treat them however they view themselves as. If they see themselves as a man/woman, that's exactly how I'll approach them as.
Just because I see it differently then they do it doesn't mean I'll put that view into action.
I don't patronize them. It's just a matter of respecting people's belief system.
Well... that makes sense, and I get it to some degree, but I don't really understand how you wouldn't just see them as whatever they looked / acted like. Or just as a person first, and their gender / gender traits as unimportantly secondary.
I just don't understand the steadfast clinging to the notion that their birth gender MUST be "what" they are. Unless it's a matter of sticking by the principles of science, from a logical standpoint. That I would understand.
But you said "mentally, spiritually, and internally" and that just utterly blows my mind.
Especially "internally"! You have zero idea what it's like for them internally, so it's confusing how you would sit there and think "They're probably a man, deep down inside".
Like, you'll treat them as the gender they choose to represent, but you don't buy into a single ounce of it? (mentally, spiritually, and internally is pretty all-encompassing) So... what happens if they ask you how you think about them? Is it really "respect" if you treat them nice, but don't believe anything about their gender identity is correct?
I'm not trying to be overly argumentative or defensive here, (I know I have been) so I apologize... but I'm really curious as to why you look at it the way you do, because it's different than the way I do, and I find that curious and think that if I understood it, I'd have grown some.
I have a male relative who wants bottom surgery.
I think [s]he should master being female before [s]he has the surgery. [S]He has changed her name, taken hormones, and grown her hair long, but she still looks and acts VERY masculine. I know it's a process, but I don't think [s]he makes enough of an effort to BE female, or maybe [s]he doesn't understand what being a woman really is.
I think it would depend on the individual and how feminine they are, and not so much whether they have a penis or not.
"I don't think [s]he makes enough of an effort to BE female, or maybe [s]he doesn't understand what being a woman really is."
I don't really understand that. What effort needs to be made? What DOES it mean to really be a woman?
I'm not! Do I really sound like that all the time? I guess I should be more careful with my tone. It's bizarre because I'm rather soft-spoken and collected in real life. Read what I write in a calm, sexy voice. That's me.
You should watch the movie Tootsie (1982) starring Dustin Hoffman. Classic.
Oh. I'm sorry. :)
Re-reading.... [in a calm, sexy voice]
So, to explain this, I have to (begrudgingly) admit that I participate in many parts of gender-culture that I don't necessarily agree with because they are constructs imposed on me by my society that are somewhat sexist in nature.
I sit with my knees together in public without even being conscious of it. I keep my nails trimmed, filed, and buffed even though I don't wear polish. My hair is very long and requires extra care to look healthy and goddess-like, but it's worth the effort. I wear floral perfume daily. I wear a bit of makeup if I go out of the house. I wear lacey things and dresses. I walk with a sway of my hips because I have a woman's pelvis. I like pretty things that have no purpose other than being pretty. And it's always been acceptable for me to gush over babies and cute animals. I giggle quite a bit too.
I bend the rules sometimes though. I can weld (MIG, TIG, Flux-cored, Stick) vertically, horizontally, and overhead. I can change the oil in my car. I know the basics of carpentry and have my own tool-belt. I have my own steel-toed boots. I love dirty jokes. I am very resourceful (like MacGyver sort of resourceful) and independent.
Like so many other things in life, there is so much grey area that pretty much anyone can be or call themselves whatever they want and it is supposed to be acceptable (like BoredGuy who wants us to call him God). My relative wants to be called a woman, wants to BE a woman. Part of the psychological requirements for the bottom-surgery is that she must show that she has already become a woman on the outside. She has been turned down for the surgery because she didn't meet those requirements, among other things. Putting on a dress, some lipstick, and a pair of heels in your spare time doesn't make you a woman. I think you have to live as a woman every waking moment to be a woman.
I guess what I was asking was whether feminine = female. If a woman acts masculine, are they still female? Is the reason for you being female really just your societally imposed tendencies? Or is it just what's between your legs? Or is it just your genome sequence? I don't really know the answer. Which is interesting in itself, the idea that we can use such terms so often and not really have a concrete idea of what they actually mean.
Hah... when I read "Post OP" my first thought was... "What does post original poster have to do with gender?"
but then I figured out what the OP meant.
me... If someone wants to call themselves "male" or "female" I call them "him" or "her" as they wish. it doesn't hurt me to be polite.
Calm yourself! The bigoted comments are thumbed down, and the comment you responded to was hardly the most offensive (in fact, while I don't agree with it, I thought it was pretty rational). And the poll results are actually better than I would have expected, I'm kind of impressed. I don't think a worldwide census would have a 40% approval rate. In what bastion of progressiveness do you live, LA?
Not that the results are ideal, but hey, progress is progress.
Well, when I first put my comment the voting results were much less favorable, and mostly it was the offensive phrasing in the question that irritated me.
My level of calm apparently didn't translate that well, but everybody's passionate about SOMEthing. The comment I replied to I did so because it was rational enough that I thought I could get a legitimate response to. I didn't respond to it because I thought it was the most offensive. Look at Jweezee's comment. Do you really think I could have gotten any kind of intelligent, thought out response by replying to that one?
You're right though, as this poll has been given more time it is good to see that it's starting to show a positive shift in the way people look at things.
Ah, that's fair. And I was kidding about the whole LA thing. Personally I'm very progressive in the sociopolitical sense and (like most) I tend to associate with people who think similarly, so it's a little jarring sometimes to see that most of the world doesn't agree with me. But we're slowly heading towards acceptance, I think.
I honestly don't understand how the most irrelevant things can foster such a dripping, passionate hatred. I really don't get it.
Absolutely not. Can't change those chromosomes no matter how many hormones you take :)