Do you believe in God, science or both?

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  • "God created the world"
    By speaking it into existence. LMAO, you can't get something from nothing, and for true creation to take place, not even a "creator"
    Can be present.
    The whole idea of god is a contradiction.

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    • You would be right... If God is a type of human, and the words of a God are made of the same stuff and have the same qualities as the words of a human. But he isn't, and they aren't and they don't (unless he chooses to make their form understandable to humans,which he has sometimes done in his dealings with us). Whatever kind of entity God is, and whatever God's words are, I can't see why they shouldn't have power to influence the material world that he is the creator of, the same as human words have the power to influence culture that humans are the creators of. We are creators of our culture (even if many creatures of lower intelligence than us could not imitate us or ever conceive of how we did it), and whatever God is, it doesn't seem implausibe that he should have the qualities required to create a material world, if creating the material world is what he is reputed to have done. In biology, if we see strange animal tracks but can't imagine what animal could have made them, we don't say that the animal never existed just because we can't appreciate what it must be like. Instead, we say, 'whatever this animal is like, its feet are adapted in such a way as to enable it to make tracks like that.'. We can't imagine how God is a god, but in intelligence as a species, we are to God as a slug is to us, so it should be more worrying if we *could* understand. What we can conclude is that if God made the universe, God has the qualities and attributes required for making universes, which of course no known animal has, because God is not an animal, and animals do not make universes.

      It therefore isn't implausible that the attributes of God should be significantly unlike ours. In the animal kingdom, birds fly without an engine, fish live underwater without an oxygen tank, some fish even produce their own electricity, and they did so probably.millions of years before humans 'discovered' it. But short of DNA modification any human-like being doing those things lwould be absurd. Well, since God is a higher intelligence than us (and I'm talking by a lot, not a little), I could well believe that enough of God's attributes are not shared by humans, to make him capable of myriad other things that would be absurd for a human to be able to do. And yet, he is like enough to humans that he communicates, and that these communications can cause things to be engendered.

      To talk about the attributes of something, you first need to entertain the premise that it exists. Otherwise it is like saying 'There is no such thing as a hoggleswaggle. It does not and has not ever existed. The cry of a hoggleswaggle does not have the power to cause an earthquake.'. But if there is no such thing as a hoggleswaggle it doesn't even have a cry - and more than that, there is no 'it' to have or not have a cry in the first place. All I know about the power of the words of God is that I have heard seen it working, but if you have not seen them,and do not know or will not permit yourself to entertain the notion that God is even an entity, how can you describe his characteristics, and draw up limits of what he can and can't do? A non-thing can't have any attributes at all. Now because I have had experience of a real God in my life I can say the little I know about him. But far less than tell me what God's words can and can't do, you couldn't even tell me what colour my neighbour's cat is! And yet despute never having seen or known my neighbour's cat you could believe well enough that my neighbour has a cat.

      I could go on...

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      • Please do go on. Tell me why Agnosticism is a false concept.

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