Essentially, yes. The laws of the universe that science has discovered pre-existed the science, all science did was make them visible to humans. We 'see' the laws often by codifying them into mathematics. Sometimes we get the science wrong. But no matter how bad the science is, the laws themselves don't change. They are not dependent on 'science' to exist, and they stay the same until someone does a better job at describing them! Newton's apple would have fallen whether Newton had called it 'gravity' or not!
Yes, but is the evolution of life into the species that we see today, not due to random processes of which the non-adaptive ones die out without intervention nor guiding care from a Deity?
Why are the two mutually exclusive? As I see it, God created matter and its laws, and sustains it in spirit. Spirit and matter are two completely different things. Science in its present form largely only considers matter. There are points of convergence, but empiricists are generally only concerned with matter. So, however God may be sustaining his processed, they don't know, and largely, they don't want to know l, except to try to 'disprove' God. Would an almighty God condescend to let mockers and haters tie him down and prod and judge him like an animal specimen? We ask if dolphins, elephants and primates ought to be treated with more dignity than to be put in zoos because of their high IQ. ASSUMING God is real, then he is a God, not some kind of monkey. He would not be less sentient than a human being, but more, and have a more developed sense of self, and a more powerful intelligence than a human. Assuming God is real, we could not expect him to be happy to be treated as a lab specimen and dominated by those who consider him an enemy. Why should he not conceal himself from them? His existence doesn't depend on their believing in him. If scientists set out with the foregone conclusion that God doesn't exist and set up their parameters and scope of enquiry accordingly, then of course they will not 'find' him. Moreover, how can they expect to develop a methodology to detect him, if they already don't believe he is there? They do not have any idea what sort of being he is, and they do not care. So they cannot.
It is true that a lot of Christians are narrow-minded. It is also true that a lot of naturalists (convinced atheists) are narrow-minded, too. But tell me now, is it narrower to admit the possibility of both God and science, or to shut one's eyes completely to the possibility of God? People sometimes throw clichés around without really thinking about what they're saying.
Nobody is trying to banish your warm fuzzy spiritual teddy bear into non-existence. Either he created the universe, or he didn't. Despite your best efforts to avoid answering my question, you have answered it. I wish you, God, and your ancient scriptures all the best. As an Agnostic, his existence matters not to me.
Well, thanks for your warm wishes and your respectful answer, considering we don't share points of view! Just to clarify though, it is the God of the Bible whom I'm convinced is there (the one who commanded circumcision, required animal blood sacrifice, and sealed a peace pact with mankind on the bloody death of his own incarnate self). Did your idea of my God include those things? On balance and from experience of upholding the pact and knowing peace with him, I'd say God is warm and fuzzy to those who are warm to him, but he is warm and fuzzy like a lion, not like a teddy bear.
What ever works for you, babe. Logic, math, physics, thermodynamics, and cosmology give me peacefulness and comfort in a way that you will never understand.
You are one delusional guy. Following you around and watching you talk to your faggotpenis, mcbean, flatuloso alt accounts is priceless. I guess you need to keep up with the illusion that many users are agreeing with you for some self validation..but really you are such a loser that you are responding to your own comments with your other accounts..? Wow! This deserves some sort of medal! No wonder you can't get a girlfriend. I guess that explains your transparent anger towards women in general that you usually end up talking about on each one of your alt accounts at some point or another. Keep commenting this is fun.
Do you believe in God, science or both?
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Essentially, yes. The laws of the universe that science has discovered pre-existed the science, all science did was make them visible to humans. We 'see' the laws often by codifying them into mathematics. Sometimes we get the science wrong. But no matter how bad the science is, the laws themselves don't change. They are not dependent on 'science' to exist, and they stay the same until someone does a better job at describing them! Newton's apple would have fallen whether Newton had called it 'gravity' or not!
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McBean
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Yes, but is the evolution of life into the species that we see today, not due to random processes of which the non-adaptive ones die out without intervention nor guiding care from a Deity?
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Why are the two mutually exclusive? As I see it, God created matter and its laws, and sustains it in spirit. Spirit and matter are two completely different things. Science in its present form largely only considers matter. There are points of convergence, but empiricists are generally only concerned with matter. So, however God may be sustaining his processed, they don't know, and largely, they don't want to know l, except to try to 'disprove' God. Would an almighty God condescend to let mockers and haters tie him down and prod and judge him like an animal specimen? We ask if dolphins, elephants and primates ought to be treated with more dignity than to be put in zoos because of their high IQ. ASSUMING God is real, then he is a God, not some kind of monkey. He would not be less sentient than a human being, but more, and have a more developed sense of self, and a more powerful intelligence than a human. Assuming God is real, we could not expect him to be happy to be treated as a lab specimen and dominated by those who consider him an enemy. Why should he not conceal himself from them? His existence doesn't depend on their believing in him. If scientists set out with the foregone conclusion that God doesn't exist and set up their parameters and scope of enquiry accordingly, then of course they will not 'find' him. Moreover, how can they expect to develop a methodology to detect him, if they already don't believe he is there? They do not have any idea what sort of being he is, and they do not care. So they cannot.
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McBean
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Looks like your a huge Jesus freak that has a very narrow mind of how things work in the universe
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It is true that a lot of Christians are narrow-minded. It is also true that a lot of naturalists (convinced atheists) are narrow-minded, too. But tell me now, is it narrower to admit the possibility of both God and science, or to shut one's eyes completely to the possibility of God? People sometimes throw clichés around without really thinking about what they're saying.
Nobody is trying to banish your warm fuzzy spiritual teddy bear into non-existence. Either he created the universe, or he didn't. Despite your best efforts to avoid answering my question, you have answered it. I wish you, God, and your ancient scriptures all the best. As an Agnostic, his existence matters not to me.
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Grunewald
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Well, thanks for your warm wishes and your respectful answer, considering we don't share points of view! Just to clarify though, it is the God of the Bible whom I'm convinced is there (the one who commanded circumcision, required animal blood sacrifice, and sealed a peace pact with mankind on the bloody death of his own incarnate self). Did your idea of my God include those things? On balance and from experience of upholding the pact and knowing peace with him, I'd say God is warm and fuzzy to those who are warm to him, but he is warm and fuzzy like a lion, not like a teddy bear.
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What ever works for you, babe. Logic, math, physics, thermodynamics, and cosmology give me peacefulness and comfort in a way that you will never understand.
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You are one delusional guy. Following you around and watching you talk to your faggotpenis, mcbean, flatuloso alt accounts is priceless. I guess you need to keep up with the illusion that many users are agreeing with you for some self validation..but really you are such a loser that you are responding to your own comments with your other accounts..? Wow! This deserves some sort of medal! No wonder you can't get a girlfriend. I guess that explains your transparent anger towards women in general that you usually end up talking about on each one of your alt accounts at some point or another. Keep commenting this is fun.