Simply, why? Let's take out the accidental factor. Let's say the crime was caught on tape. Let's say a man raped a child and then killed her, on video. Why shouldn't he get the death penalty?
But people are executed accidentally, even with video evidence. Imagine being accused of raping and murdering a child when you hadn't done it. Imagine being an atheist and knowing the only life you'll ever have is being terminated and nothing you say can stop it, even though you keep pleading your innocence. Imagine knowing that people aren't going to mourn your death because you're seen as evil when, really, you didn't do it, and they'll probably discover this at some point after your death. Some people haven't had to imagine this. Some people have lived it.
But taking the accidental factor away, have you ever made a mistake? And were you allowed a second chance? Do you think others shouldn't be allowed a chance? Paedophilia and child murder is an emotive one and I personally don't want anyone on the streets who is known to have done this and who may do it again. If one kid dies because someone hasn't been properly dealt with, then there's a failure in the system. But if the only way of dealing with people is to kill them, that's also a failure in the system.
i believe that anyone who can behave that way with an innocent child, regardless of the thoughts or feelings of that child does not deserve justice, and i believe that the government is totally justified in removing that persons life, just as that monster did to the child
the reason i believe this is that everyone has control over their own actions and can choose not to commit the crime and there fore serve the sentance, in other words if you do the crime then you do the time.
And if you're an Athiest, and belive this is your only life, then what about the person you raped and/or killed? You want people to hold your life more valuable than those you either ended or fucked up forever? That makes even less sense than a Christian that believes at least you're going to a pleasant afterlife after I fuck and kill you against your will.
OK, well if video evidence isn't enough, what about people who readily admit their crime? And I know, there's false confessions, but I'm talking about those who readily and credibly admit to it.
True but what about the people that don't care about the harm that they do and just enjoy raping and killing children? The type of people that do this more than twice...the type of people that don't learn and go right back to their old ways. I know of people like this and they are sick bastards who don't deserve to live in my eyes. You or others may even consider me a sick bastard for even thinking that death penalty should be allowed but for a lot of people, execution just has to be done.
I'd class people like that as mentally ill (although you have to be careful when judging that people are ill just because they don't match whatever version of society they were born into). But, as such, I'd think they need treatment. When we start killing people for being ill, it's a slippery slope as to what else we'll kill them for just because it's convenient.
Where do we draw the distinction between criminal tendencies, mental illness, or natural propensity to not care, though? Because it's such a difficult question, it doesn't have an easy answer. Probably why some people believe in the death penalty and some don't.
Hmm... you make a good point but I personally think the mental illness thing is used as an escape route. Some of these people don't need treatment and its not like they even have an OCD for killing - they just want to. And for that reason they should just die themselves. There are just some cruel sadistic people that hurt others but there is nothing seriously wrong with them - I think its just an excuse.
even out side of that, death is a threat from totalitarian government to its people, while some people dont fear torture(they airnt to bright) it is enough to stop a downward spiral that the death penalty would easily allow
If that was true, then places with an imposed death penalty would have lower crime rates, which is certainly not the case. The data is inconclusive. Most of the time, when someone commits a serious felony (say, murder), they don't make a list of pros and cons and decide which would be a better choice.
There's also the issue of the advent of DNA testing, and how we're discovering how often our verdicts are incorrect, and how often we've executed innocent people. But that's a whole other story.
Well, duh, most people who commit crimes don't consider the consequences beforehand, whether it be death or whatever.
That doesn't make the death penalty worthless. It still serves a purpose, which is to get rid of these people and not pay for them to live thier entire life out on taxpayer money.
Not really, but like most things in life, it's a sliding scale between what we accept and what is practical. Not sure the punishment side of prison works but, from personal experience, it's a temporary way of protecting the public. Stress on the word "temporary". Some people would want to solve the problem by killing the criminal. That's the easy way out. Why can't we solve the problem by actually solving the problem?
He's a tricky one because his protests weren't irrational. He reminds me of D-Fens in the film Falling Down. There are commonalities in the lives of people who become terrorists (without coercion) and people who become despots and you see it with McVeigh too. You could almost predict it. But nobody cared enough.
So we have two ways of dealing with it. Either we let him kill scores of innocent people and then we kill him too. Or we put some effort into recognising the danger ahead of time, help him realise his method of protesting isn't the right way, and nobody dies. I know the latter is difficult, requires some intrusion into our lives if we have set off a few warning bells, and is kind of against the freedom I'd rather us have. But ultimate freedom does me no good if someone kills me before I can enjoy it.
Because governments don't want to take the time and effort to actually solve it. Prisons were created to rehabilitate criminals. These days it's used to separate them from the public. I think it's sad how things turned out. People deserve a lot more respect than they get in the prison systems.
Yeah, my grandfather did two and a bit years in prison and it killed him. Somebody sold him some stolen watches and then he sold them on for profit. He said he didn't know they were stolen. But even if he did, he bought some goods and sold them at a profit. And for that he got the same punishment as a murderer; just for less time.
Jails are supposed to be for rehabilitation, not for seclusion. It's sad to see things like that happen to good hearted people.
Is the law where you live, guilty until proven innocent? I once heard that it was like that ages ago in the UK, but I am not up to date or fully informed on the policies of other countries.
The complete opposite. You're presumed innocent until proven guilty here. If there remains reasonable doubt, you can't be charged guilty. What you've got up to in the past never gets revealed until after the verdict (which always struck me as strange. I agree with not judging people by the past, but why they reveal it after the decision, I don't know).
I'm surprised you wouldn't disagree more. I'm an atheist and I don't believe in any life after death. What we have here on earth, for me, is all we're ever going to get. It makes me think twice before thinking execution is a solution.
Wish you would think differently and try to find that God is real and loves you and died on the Cross for you. Because it was Him who wonderfully created you.
If you still feel the same, then your kind should becareful about their actions and not commit crimes.
It was Jesus, but God is His father and ours, and when Jesus died that horrible and brutal death on the cross for our sins, and the rose on the third day, God also went with Him. When you become Saved you are excepting both God the Father and Jesus His Son into your heart and soul.
God deffinitley loves you and He does understand how you feel and think, and if you are thinking about reconciling with Him, then you can. All you have to do is have a little talk with Him and tell Him how you feel and that you want to accept Him into your life as your wonderful and loving Saviour. Pray that you will do this friend. :D
Do You Agree With Death Penalty??
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I can't understand anyone agreeing with the death penalty.
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wigsplitz
11 years ago
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4392Moron
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Simply, why? Let's take out the accidental factor. Let's say the crime was caught on tape. Let's say a man raped a child and then killed her, on video. Why shouldn't he get the death penalty?
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dappled
11 years ago
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monkyyy
11 years ago
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But people are executed accidentally, even with video evidence. Imagine being accused of raping and murdering a child when you hadn't done it. Imagine being an atheist and knowing the only life you'll ever have is being terminated and nothing you say can stop it, even though you keep pleading your innocence. Imagine knowing that people aren't going to mourn your death because you're seen as evil when, really, you didn't do it, and they'll probably discover this at some point after your death. Some people haven't had to imagine this. Some people have lived it.
But taking the accidental factor away, have you ever made a mistake? And were you allowed a second chance? Do you think others shouldn't be allowed a chance? Paedophilia and child murder is an emotive one and I personally don't want anyone on the streets who is known to have done this and who may do it again. If one kid dies because someone hasn't been properly dealt with, then there's a failure in the system. But if the only way of dealing with people is to kill them, that's also a failure in the system.
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hermione
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wigsplitz
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wigsplitz
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[Old Memory]
11 years ago
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i believe that anyone who can behave that way with an innocent child, regardless of the thoughts or feelings of that child does not deserve justice, and i believe that the government is totally justified in removing that persons life, just as that monster did to the child
the reason i believe this is that everyone has control over their own actions and can choose not to commit the crime and there fore serve the sentance, in other words if you do the crime then you do the time.
And if you're an Athiest, and belive this is your only life, then what about the person you raped and/or killed? You want people to hold your life more valuable than those you either ended or fucked up forever? That makes even less sense than a Christian that believes at least you're going to a pleasant afterlife after I fuck and kill you against your will.
OK, well if video evidence isn't enough, what about people who readily admit their crime? And I know, there's false confessions, but I'm talking about those who readily and credibly admit to it.
True but what about the people that don't care about the harm that they do and just enjoy raping and killing children? The type of people that do this more than twice...the type of people that don't learn and go right back to their old ways. I know of people like this and they are sick bastards who don't deserve to live in my eyes. You or others may even consider me a sick bastard for even thinking that death penalty should be allowed but for a lot of people, execution just has to be done.
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dappled
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I'd class people like that as mentally ill (although you have to be careful when judging that people are ill just because they don't match whatever version of society they were born into). But, as such, I'd think they need treatment. When we start killing people for being ill, it's a slippery slope as to what else we'll kill them for just because it's convenient.
Where do we draw the distinction between criminal tendencies, mental illness, or natural propensity to not care, though? Because it's such a difficult question, it doesn't have an easy answer. Probably why some people believe in the death penalty and some don't.
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[Old Memory]
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Hmm... you make a good point but I personally think the mental illness thing is used as an escape route. Some of these people don't need treatment and its not like they even have an OCD for killing - they just want to. And for that reason they should just die themselves. There are just some cruel sadistic people that hurt others but there is nothing seriously wrong with them - I think its just an excuse.
even out side of that, death is a threat from totalitarian government to its people, while some people dont fear torture(they airnt to bright) it is enough to stop a downward spiral that the death penalty would easily allow
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flutterhigh
11 years ago
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If that was true, then places with an imposed death penalty would have lower crime rates, which is certainly not the case. The data is inconclusive. Most of the time, when someone commits a serious felony (say, murder), they don't make a list of pros and cons and decide which would be a better choice.
There's also the issue of the advent of DNA testing, and how we're discovering how often our verdicts are incorrect, and how often we've executed innocent people. But that's a whole other story.
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wigsplitz
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Well, duh, most people who commit crimes don't consider the consequences beforehand, whether it be death or whatever.
That doesn't make the death penalty worthless. It still serves a purpose, which is to get rid of these people and not pay for them to live thier entire life out on taxpayer money.
Do you believe it's humane to cage people for their whole lives, also? I don't think either is right.
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dappled
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Not really, but like most things in life, it's a sliding scale between what we accept and what is practical. Not sure the punishment side of prison works but, from personal experience, it's a temporary way of protecting the public. Stress on the word "temporary". Some people would want to solve the problem by killing the criminal. That's the easy way out. Why can't we solve the problem by actually solving the problem?
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NothingxCrazy
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What do you think of Tim McVeigh? Just curious. Read it over if you like, and please comment!
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dappled
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He's a tricky one because his protests weren't irrational. He reminds me of D-Fens in the film Falling Down. There are commonalities in the lives of people who become terrorists (without coercion) and people who become despots and you see it with McVeigh too. You could almost predict it. But nobody cared enough.
So we have two ways of dealing with it. Either we let him kill scores of innocent people and then we kill him too. Or we put some effort into recognising the danger ahead of time, help him realise his method of protesting isn't the right way, and nobody dies. I know the latter is difficult, requires some intrusion into our lives if we have set off a few warning bells, and is kind of against the freedom I'd rather us have. But ultimate freedom does me no good if someone kills me before I can enjoy it.
Because governments don't want to take the time and effort to actually solve it. Prisons were created to rehabilitate criminals. These days it's used to separate them from the public. I think it's sad how things turned out. People deserve a lot more respect than they get in the prison systems.
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dappled
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Yeah, my grandfather did two and a bit years in prison and it killed him. Somebody sold him some stolen watches and then he sold them on for profit. He said he didn't know they were stolen. But even if he did, he bought some goods and sold them at a profit. And for that he got the same punishment as a murderer; just for less time.
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NothingxCrazy
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Jails are supposed to be for rehabilitation, not for seclusion. It's sad to see things like that happen to good hearted people.
Is the law where you live, guilty until proven innocent? I once heard that it was like that ages ago in the UK, but I am not up to date or fully informed on the policies of other countries.
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dappled
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The complete opposite. You're presumed innocent until proven guilty here. If there remains reasonable doubt, you can't be charged guilty. What you've got up to in the past never gets revealed until after the verdict (which always struck me as strange. I agree with not judging people by the past, but why they reveal it after the decision, I don't know).
Hello There:
First time that I totally disagree with one of your responses.
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dappled
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I'm surprised you wouldn't disagree more. I'm an atheist and I don't believe in any life after death. What we have here on earth, for me, is all we're ever going to get. It makes me think twice before thinking execution is a solution.
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4392Moron
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flutterhigh
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Wish you would think differently and try to find that God is real and loves you and died on the Cross for you. Because it was Him who wonderfully created you.
If you still feel the same, then your kind should becareful about their actions and not commit crimes.
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bananaface
11 years ago
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I thought it was Jesus who supposedly died on the cross?
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4392Moron
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It was Jesus, but God is His father and ours, and when Jesus died that horrible and brutal death on the cross for our sins, and the rose on the third day, God also went with Him. When you become Saved you are excepting both God the Father and Jesus His Son into your heart and soul.
God damn, she's right, dappled. I certainly hope this god loves me enough to understand that my thought process is irreconcilable with him.
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4392Moron
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Hey Flutterhigh:
God deffinitley loves you and He does understand how you feel and think, and if you are thinking about reconciling with Him, then you can. All you have to do is have a little talk with Him and tell Him how you feel and that you want to accept Him into your life as your wonderful and loving Saviour. Pray that you will do this friend. :D