You just don't get it, do you: RAPE IS SEX WITHOUT CONSENT. That's it, regardless of prior intimacy, how the woman (or man) is dressed, has behaved or is behaving: RAPE IS SEX WITHOUT CONSENT. It's not rocket science. What you personally or anyone else would or would not like has nothing to do with that basic definition.
If the sleeping person enjoys being fucked in his/her sleep and has consented to it in advance, that is not rape. Also, it needs to be understood more widely that just because someone's body involuntarily responds to sexual stimuli even to the point of orgasm, that does not necessarily mean s/he is consenting to what's happening: ask any man who's been raped by another man or by a woman.
I'll say it again: THE ISSUE IS CONSENT, CONSENT, CONSENT: NO CONSENT = RAPE
Well, it depends on the country / jurisdiction.
In my country for example, a marriage certificate means prior consent to sex (permission and duty to have sex), so it is definitely not rape.
But you may live in an atheist country where marriage means nothing more than some economic stuff.
Well I'm glad I live where I do then: I was part of a long struggle in the 70's to have rape within marriage (inc de facto) recognised as rape. Australia isn't an "atheist country" but it is obviously more enlightened than yours where the right of a woman to say no to sex within marriage isn't recognised.
Just curious, but do you or would you force sex on your wife against her will on the basis that marriage implies consent at all times you want sex from her?
1. One of the spouses wants to have sex.
2. If the other one is sick, extremely indisposed or tired, menstruating, etc, sex is postponed.
3. If this continues for too long after the disease etc is over (usually more than a week), the spouse which is not fulfilling the marital duties is gently reminded of the marriage vows.
4. If still nothing (very rare), the result may be:
--- (most cases) usually a divorce with full fault of the spouse not wanting to have sex;
--- (some cases) sex in which one spouse does not enjoy it / tolerates it because of really no other alternative, with resentiments;
--- (very rare) sex resembling rape.
And to answer the question about me:
Personally, I would not force sex upon my wife. I would try in this order:
1. To wait for her to want sex again;
2. To remind her of her marital duty;
3. To get a divorce with her having 100% of fault.
Luckily my wife enjoys sex probably more than I do.
Sometimes I am not in the mood. If she insists, she usually gets it, albeit low quality.
I don't think going all caps on me is really necessary I think we can disagree without becoming shrill. I totally understand what consent means and what its all about I know some people that are into things I would never want to do but its a consensual act. All I was saying is that without knowing the people involved I don't think its a simple matter but I don't think there are very many human inter actions that are simple.
She asked if it was considered normal not was she raped there for I don't think that answering something she didn't ask is going to be helpful. Many people ingage in the whole sleeping or sleepy sex thing and enjoy it quite alot maybe hes had that kind of relationship before so its not something he even thought about as maybe being wrong or needing to ask.
I've had bfs that liked to slap my bottom they never asked but I didn't object either I kinda liked getting attention in a sort of sexual way out side the context of being in the bed room so yea it was a normal thing we did but not every one would like. I think by your definition I was repeatedly sexually assaulted but the problem with the everything has to be 100% consentual 100% of the time is there is no way to have any spontaneous things happen. I think if I'm in a relationship and we have kissed alot like maybe been together for 6 months or whatever he doesn't have to ask me before he kisses me. I would never stay with someone that asked Can I kiss you? May I put my arms around while I do it? Can I pull you close with my arms? Etc. Sounds like having a relationship with a robot esp if it happens for every single kiss.
I don't know if you have a special line you draw at penetration maybe you do and thats fine I can understand that but the topic doesn't seem to be about definitions of rape so thats not how I took it.
The caps were to emphasise what you don't seem to be able to understand about CONSENT. If you consented to being spanked then it wasn't sexual assault because you CONSENTED. Spontaneity has nothing to do with consent: of course one party may start something the other person doesn't want but unless h/she stops immediately there's any indication of lack of consent the activity should be immediately stopped.
What's so hard to understand about that? Of course in a relationship it's not necessary to ask for consent to activities which have previously been enjoyed BUT I was raped in my sleep by someone I'd had great consensual sex with not long before and saying no and trying to stop him when I awoke was ignored: that was rape regardless of the fact that I'd previously consented to and enjoyed sex with him.
Ok I'm done the topic isn't about what is rape I'm sorry for what happened to you no one should have anything like that to them. I'm also not going to be lectured like a child I've had my own sexual traumas and they certainly weren't consentual at all but not agreeing with your opinion isn't the same as not understanding the issue. I don't know you but if your one of those last word people go ahead I won't respond you can win.
bf had sex with me while I was asleep
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You just don't get it, do you: RAPE IS SEX WITHOUT CONSENT. That's it, regardless of prior intimacy, how the woman (or man) is dressed, has behaved or is behaving: RAPE IS SEX WITHOUT CONSENT. It's not rocket science. What you personally or anyone else would or would not like has nothing to do with that basic definition.
If the sleeping person enjoys being fucked in his/her sleep and has consented to it in advance, that is not rape. Also, it needs to be understood more widely that just because someone's body involuntarily responds to sexual stimuli even to the point of orgasm, that does not necessarily mean s/he is consenting to what's happening: ask any man who's been raped by another man or by a woman.
I'll say it again: THE ISSUE IS CONSENT, CONSENT, CONSENT: NO CONSENT = RAPE
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umph
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mysistersshadow
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Well, it depends on the country / jurisdiction.
In my country for example, a marriage certificate means prior consent to sex (permission and duty to have sex), so it is definitely not rape.
But you may live in an atheist country where marriage means nothing more than some economic stuff.
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Ellenna
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Well I'm glad I live where I do then: I was part of a long struggle in the 70's to have rape within marriage (inc de facto) recognised as rape. Australia isn't an "atheist country" but it is obviously more enlightened than yours where the right of a woman to say no to sex within marriage isn't recognised.
Just curious, but do you or would you force sex on your wife against her will on the basis that marriage implies consent at all times you want sex from her?
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In practice, it goes something like this:
1. One of the spouses wants to have sex.
2. If the other one is sick, extremely indisposed or tired, menstruating, etc, sex is postponed.
3. If this continues for too long after the disease etc is over (usually more than a week), the spouse which is not fulfilling the marital duties is gently reminded of the marriage vows.
4. If still nothing (very rare), the result may be:
--- (most cases) usually a divorce with full fault of the spouse not wanting to have sex;
--- (some cases) sex in which one spouse does not enjoy it / tolerates it because of really no other alternative, with resentiments;
--- (very rare) sex resembling rape.
And to answer the question about me:
Personally, I would not force sex upon my wife. I would try in this order:
1. To wait for her to want sex again;
2. To remind her of her marital duty;
3. To get a divorce with her having 100% of fault.
Luckily my wife enjoys sex probably more than I do.
Sometimes I am not in the mood. If she insists, she usually gets it, albeit low quality.
I don't think going all caps on me is really necessary I think we can disagree without becoming shrill. I totally understand what consent means and what its all about I know some people that are into things I would never want to do but its a consensual act. All I was saying is that without knowing the people involved I don't think its a simple matter but I don't think there are very many human inter actions that are simple.
She asked if it was considered normal not was she raped there for I don't think that answering something she didn't ask is going to be helpful. Many people ingage in the whole sleeping or sleepy sex thing and enjoy it quite alot maybe hes had that kind of relationship before so its not something he even thought about as maybe being wrong or needing to ask.
I've had bfs that liked to slap my bottom they never asked but I didn't object either I kinda liked getting attention in a sort of sexual way out side the context of being in the bed room so yea it was a normal thing we did but not every one would like. I think by your definition I was repeatedly sexually assaulted but the problem with the everything has to be 100% consentual 100% of the time is there is no way to have any spontaneous things happen. I think if I'm in a relationship and we have kissed alot like maybe been together for 6 months or whatever he doesn't have to ask me before he kisses me. I would never stay with someone that asked Can I kiss you? May I put my arms around while I do it? Can I pull you close with my arms? Etc. Sounds like having a relationship with a robot esp if it happens for every single kiss.
I don't know if you have a special line you draw at penetration maybe you do and thats fine I can understand that but the topic doesn't seem to be about definitions of rape so thats not how I took it.
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The caps were to emphasise what you don't seem to be able to understand about CONSENT. If you consented to being spanked then it wasn't sexual assault because you CONSENTED. Spontaneity has nothing to do with consent: of course one party may start something the other person doesn't want but unless h/she stops immediately there's any indication of lack of consent the activity should be immediately stopped.
What's so hard to understand about that? Of course in a relationship it's not necessary to ask for consent to activities which have previously been enjoyed BUT I was raped in my sleep by someone I'd had great consensual sex with not long before and saying no and trying to stop him when I awoke was ignored: that was rape regardless of the fact that I'd previously consented to and enjoyed sex with him.
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mysistersshadow
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Ok I'm done the topic isn't about what is rape I'm sorry for what happened to you no one should have anything like that to them. I'm also not going to be lectured like a child I've had my own sexual traumas and they certainly weren't consentual at all but not agreeing with your opinion isn't the same as not understanding the issue. I don't know you but if your one of those last word people go ahead I won't respond you can win.
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Ellenna
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I had no intention of lecturing you so I don't know where that's coming from. End of discussion for me too, it's all getting a bit repetitive