Dont apologize to this ignorant little twit. He needs to do a lot more reading and understanding before he considers himself educated.
If i were him i'd start with authors of classic studies on animal and human behavior such as the austrian naturalist konrad lorenz and the great sociologist desmond morris. that would give this ignoramus a slight glimpse into what he does not know about either humans or other animals.
From there, if i were him, i would read the great works on the nature of consciousness as well as new research and findings on animal and even plant intelligence and consciousness.
because right now classic man is a moron. his pathetic whine about being a "unique sentient" or whatever reminds me of that ape scientist in "Planet of the Apes" who willfully ignores evidence before him so he can declare apes as the only superior beings.
"because right now classic man is a moron. his pathetic whine about being a "unique sentient" or whatever reminds me of that ape scientist in "Planet of the Apes" who willfully ignores evidence before him so he can declare apes as the only superior beings."
ROFL Perhaps YOU are the one in need of dire education about OUR own species. If you were to take a trip inside my mind you wouldn't come out the same. You're simply ignoring the point at hand and simply not thinking about what I say. It requires CONTEMPLATION, which obviously is something you lack on this situation. I AM UNIQUE. I AM A MASTER OF MY OWN DESTINY. If you merely knew me, your attitudes would change drastically, GREATER IGNORAMUS.
classicalman114: "I AM UNIQUE. I AM A MASTER OF MY OWN DESTINY."
Well, of course you're unique. And yeah, of course you're the master of your own destiny. Anyone could tell you that. Notice I said "masters of our own DESIGN." There's a difference. DESTINY means you control your own life. Entirely true for any living creature. DESIGN means you don't own the world. It's not all for you, you, you. You are part of a great design, called the universe. If you hurt someone else, you'll get hurt, because we are all part of one body.
I suppose, but he never DID say anything about environmentalism or animal rights..
Well, it's good to know you feel as I do, PooLTOY. People get so scared when they discover that "OMG! Maybe I'm NOT so great"...Just look on the news. Are these the rulers of creation? Looks like a pack of wolves ripping up a rabbit...only we have machine guns and tanks.
I see your point in your previous post, and based upon that manner of looking at things, I see where you're coming from more now. However, the one proceeding PoolTOY (he is indeed a TOY to his instincts as I can deduce based on what he argues) is a prime example of comparison based upon a childish and naive manner of viewing occurrences within our world. Scientifically, there is NO logical correlation between our warfare and wolves ripping up meat for prey (two completely unrelated forms of action between two completely and utterly different living entities). If I were you, I wouldn't argue with that form anymore; it weakens your points.
Anyway, here's the thing: the majority of animals other than us only are what they are and do what their instincts tell them to do. However, we POSSESS A SELF-AWARENESS THAT NO OTHER ANIMAL HAS. It is simply this self-awareness that creates our statuses as unique sentient beings, and permits us to create states of mind that completely and utterly transcend the limits of fundamental instincts. I can prove this by even one simple statement : SEX CONCERNS ONLY 1.5%% OF MY LIFE (that's true). Can any other animal declare that? Of course not. And the reasons are obvious.
Are you saying that other animals only act only on instincts and there is no conscious thought involved? I have to say, I think this idea is absurd -- anyone who owns a pet knows that it thinks and feels, two abilities that require consciousness.
My cat follows me all over the house because I pet her all the time and it feels good to her. Obviously, her INSTINCTS didn't tell her that -- how could she be born knowing I'll scratch her behind the ears and give her a belly-rub? Obviously, she learned this, which would require thought. This may seem like a silly example, but it's entirely true. Other animals think and learn, perhaps in a more primitive fashion, but learning is learning and thinking is thinking, no matter to what degree it is.
i agree with what you are saying moonlit. i would also add that many animals possess distinct personalities and are individuals.
this applies to even what are considered "stupid" animals. I had 2 red eared slider turtles for over 15 years before i donated them to a zoo.
i can tell you that the two turtles had distinct personalities, one was shy but could be quickly aggressive while the other was bold but relatively gentle. The shy aggressive one also figured out how to escape the tank they lived in, and I saw her more than once looking at a part of the tank at a certain area where a bar spanned the top. Sure enough, she made her initial escape by pulling herself over that bar. The other turtle could never figure out how to do that.
I could also tell you how i deductively came to the conclusion that they both possessed SELF CONSCIOUSNESS, but maybe that's for another post.
btw, I studied biology at a university for several years, and have raised many types of animals of various zoological classifications, including insects.
I'm not sure why it's so important for classical man to believe that humans are "unique sentients" or whatever, but i think it has something to do with the fact that he's a psycho.
at least that's what I get from reading some of his other posts.
Annoyed When People Compare Human Traits w/Animals
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Dont apologize to this ignorant little twit. He needs to do a lot more reading and understanding before he considers himself educated.
If i were him i'd start with authors of classic studies on animal and human behavior such as the austrian naturalist konrad lorenz and the great sociologist desmond morris. that would give this ignoramus a slight glimpse into what he does not know about either humans or other animals.
From there, if i were him, i would read the great works on the nature of consciousness as well as new research and findings on animal and even plant intelligence and consciousness.
because right now classic man is a moron. his pathetic whine about being a "unique sentient" or whatever reminds me of that ape scientist in "Planet of the Apes" who willfully ignores evidence before him so he can declare apes as the only superior beings.
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"because right now classic man is a moron. his pathetic whine about being a "unique sentient" or whatever reminds me of that ape scientist in "Planet of the Apes" who willfully ignores evidence before him so he can declare apes as the only superior beings."
ROFL Perhaps YOU are the one in need of dire education about OUR own species. If you were to take a trip inside my mind you wouldn't come out the same. You're simply ignoring the point at hand and simply not thinking about what I say. It requires CONTEMPLATION, which obviously is something you lack on this situation. I AM UNIQUE. I AM A MASTER OF MY OWN DESTINY. If you merely knew me, your attitudes would change drastically, GREATER IGNORAMUS.
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classicalman114: "I AM UNIQUE. I AM A MASTER OF MY OWN DESTINY."
Well, of course you're unique. And yeah, of course you're the master of your own destiny. Anyone could tell you that. Notice I said "masters of our own DESIGN." There's a difference. DESTINY means you control your own life. Entirely true for any living creature. DESIGN means you don't own the world. It's not all for you, you, you. You are part of a great design, called the universe. If you hurt someone else, you'll get hurt, because we are all part of one body.
"If you were to take a trip inside my mind you wouldn't come out the same"
no doubt.
I suppose, but he never DID say anything about environmentalism or animal rights..
Well, it's good to know you feel as I do, PooLTOY. People get so scared when they discover that "OMG! Maybe I'm NOT so great"...Just look on the news. Are these the rulers of creation? Looks like a pack of wolves ripping up a rabbit...only we have machine guns and tanks.
Truly, are we at all that different?
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I see your point in your previous post, and based upon that manner of looking at things, I see where you're coming from more now. However, the one proceeding PoolTOY (he is indeed a TOY to his instincts as I can deduce based on what he argues) is a prime example of comparison based upon a childish and naive manner of viewing occurrences within our world. Scientifically, there is NO logical correlation between our warfare and wolves ripping up meat for prey (two completely unrelated forms of action between two completely and utterly different living entities). If I were you, I wouldn't argue with that form anymore; it weakens your points.
Anyway, here's the thing: the majority of animals other than us only are what they are and do what their instincts tell them to do. However, we POSSESS A SELF-AWARENESS THAT NO OTHER ANIMAL HAS. It is simply this self-awareness that creates our statuses as unique sentient beings, and permits us to create states of mind that completely and utterly transcend the limits of fundamental instincts. I can prove this by even one simple statement : SEX CONCERNS ONLY 1.5%% OF MY LIFE (that's true). Can any other animal declare that? Of course not. And the reasons are obvious.
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Are you saying that other animals only act only on instincts and there is no conscious thought involved? I have to say, I think this idea is absurd -- anyone who owns a pet knows that it thinks and feels, two abilities that require consciousness.
My cat follows me all over the house because I pet her all the time and it feels good to her. Obviously, her INSTINCTS didn't tell her that -- how could she be born knowing I'll scratch her behind the ears and give her a belly-rub? Obviously, she learned this, which would require thought. This may seem like a silly example, but it's entirely true. Other animals think and learn, perhaps in a more primitive fashion, but learning is learning and thinking is thinking, no matter to what degree it is.
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BUT DO CATS POSSESS A SELF-AWARENESS LIKE US? NO. That's why your argument is invalid.
i agree with what you are saying moonlit. i would also add that many animals possess distinct personalities and are individuals.
this applies to even what are considered "stupid" animals. I had 2 red eared slider turtles for over 15 years before i donated them to a zoo.
i can tell you that the two turtles had distinct personalities, one was shy but could be quickly aggressive while the other was bold but relatively gentle. The shy aggressive one also figured out how to escape the tank they lived in, and I saw her more than once looking at a part of the tank at a certain area where a bar spanned the top. Sure enough, she made her initial escape by pulling herself over that bar. The other turtle could never figure out how to do that.
I could also tell you how i deductively came to the conclusion that they both possessed SELF CONSCIOUSNESS, but maybe that's for another post.
btw, I studied biology at a university for several years, and have raised many types of animals of various zoological classifications, including insects.
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It's nice to hear this opinion from someone who works with animals like you do. Way to go! :)
I'm not sure why it's so important for classical man to believe that humans are "unique sentients" or whatever, but i think it has something to do with the fact that he's a psycho.
at least that's what I get from reading some of his other posts.